|
Post by Ron Walker on Apr 18, 2022 17:32:16 GMT -7
Posted by: bjsullivan May 4 2009, 04:10 PM Hi James,
I remember, way way back in the late 70's or very early 80's, the Lasarium show I went to in a planetarium dome. They had three or four 19" equipment racks, one for the laser head mounted vertically, the other racks FULL of analog circuitry and all sorts of pots to twiddle. It was awesome. Another great show I recall, was at the Texas State Fair, also the late 70's. They had a huge fabric dome and the laser equipment all mounted up in the center, about 20 feet in the air on a wooden platform where the operators were. Beanbags scattered throughout the floor, just grab one and flop down. It was one of the wildest laser shows I had ever seen, ticket price same as riding the ferris wheel. And, all this BEFORE the IBM XT personal computer had arrived, and before Microsoft was a houshold name. Which brings us up to today, and the last laser show I saw was nothing like the old days. It was some cheap little projector a planetarium used to run a stupid "Laser Beatles" canned show with dull, boring displays, and quite possibly the worst show I had ever seen. What really struck me, is that the planetarium actually seems to sell quite a few tickets to see this crap. I almost left in the middle of the show it was that crappy. I miss the OLD days when it comes to laser shows. I wonder where the original Laserium and Laser Fantasy guys are now, as they not getting any younger (like the rest of us)! They really did bring their work into the realm of kinetic artform. Unlike these Laser Beatles, Laser Floyd canned shows delivered on cheap audio gear, lousy speakers with one side of the stereo output intermittent, oh barf gimme a break. I won't mention the name of the planetarium, or else they won't let me have their old star projector when they are finished with it!
|
|
|
Post by Ron Walker on Apr 18, 2022 17:32:41 GMT -7
Posted by: James Hicks May 4 2009, 08:55 PM QUOTE(Owen Phairis @ May 4 2009, 01:54 PM) * Hi Jim, Congratulations on your website! It will be nice to be able to monitor your progress. I worry about using electrical conduit as a structual component.... Not to worry on the star plates, time has a way of providing solutions.... Owen - Hey Owen! Well, it is true that a plywood geodesic or a wooden home style frame is much beefier than EMT. However, Galvanized steel EMT conduit is incredibly strong in a geodesic configuration, especially once the skin is on. This material has been used for permanently installed buildings to great effect by Pacific Domes in Ashland Oregon www.pacificdomes.com/and Geodesics Unlimited in England who built the Yorkshire Planetarium domes. www.geodesics-unlimited.com/index.htmI think Geodesics Unlimited uses a more sophisticated hub design, rather than the pressed and bent method. However if you do the pressing and bending with a proper jig and press the ends are very strong. Also, we are using 1-1/4" EMT for the struts rather than Pacific Dome's 1" EMT which meets most building codes for snow-loading and wind. Wind isn't really an issue for us as we are tucked into the side of the mountains but we get many feet of snow... Yet, many years down the road when the Vinyl Polyester cover has reached the end of its service life, we will go in and tighten it up again, then coat it with a fiberglass shell or have a spray-on fiber or plastic applied. Even with this trouble, the expense compared to all wood with a shingled roof and the inherent problems of wooden domes leaking it is the best deal for us. In terms of dollars it looks like we can complete this for under $20K, finishing and all! We are buying everything at wholesale... So far that's about right based on the materials we just ordered. Of course, we are fortunate to live out in the middle of the woods. Building Codes are very liberal for us so we are building a "Portable Structure on a Permanent Deck". I know for others in different areas things get a lot trickier. Most importantly, we can't see another neighbor or building anywhere from our 40 acres of property nor can any neighbor see us. So no complaints about CC&Rs and all that crap. No prying eyes into our affairs. If you can get away with a "portable building" this is the best way to go. We are doing it like this primarily because it is inexpensive and we CAN! Right now the biggest anxiety I have is sewing the PVC-Polyester cover. Getting it through my Pfaff machine to get a good top-stitch on the seems is going to be a BEE-AHTCH! I may have to spring for a long arm Juki or some other machine. That'll throw the budget a bit! Well, I am loosing sleep trying to figure out the laser-star-plate-puncher. I am eyeing some XY tables on ebay.... hmm more money ohmy.gif
|
|
|
Post by Ron Walker on Apr 18, 2022 17:32:58 GMT -7
Posted by: James Hicks May 4 2009, 09:19 PM QUOTE(bjsullivan @ May 4 2009, 04:10 PM) * Hi James,
I wonder where the original Laserium and Laser Fantasy guys are now, as they not getting any younger (like the rest of us)! They really did bring their work into the realm of kinetic art form. Unlike these Laser Beatles, Laser Floyd canned shows delivered on cheap audio gear, lousy speakers with one side of the stereo output intermittent, oh barf gimme a break. I won't mention the name of the planetarium, or else they won't let me have their old star projector when they are finished with it!
Oh I know! I know what you mean about the "Beetles Show" and all the modern Pink Floyd Shows.
The problem is the wide availability of Pangolin and the rare ability of talented programmers and systems capable of good abstract imagery. It is like the problem commercial music synthesizers still have; "Oh, yes I recognize THAT sound! That's the DX-7 Patch 32!"
Most laser shows are rehashes and pieces of the few dozen shows and frames that are present in the Pangolin library. AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHH!
Well Laserium is more or less dead sad.gif as is Laser Fantasy. Many years before Floyd Rollefstadt sold the company, I bought their original analog image synthesizer, repaired it, and made many of my own mods including an analog device my friend Pat Tobin, Casey Stack, Matt Monfort and I designed called "The Synchronus Anagraph."
What this did was allow you to set up a system much like an overhead projector where you scan the laser through a transparancy. From here a lens focused the light into a high-speed photodetector which drove the blanking signal to the PCAOM (aka AOTF). This allowed me to do things like create a shadow, or multi colored overlay of things like Syd Barret's face onto a cycloid image. Very psychedelic! We won a couple of International Laser Display Awards with that effect.
I mentioned "Laserdome", they, I and a few others are using a propriatary software system called "Digisynth' designed by Matt Polak at Raven Systems in Ohio. This software system goes WAAAY beyond any of the old Analog stuff. It is completely patchable and you can add partical system, Jpeg overlays and many many other bizarre functions to laser imagery.
I could go on and on about laser stuff... It was a HUGH part of my life.
BTW I never had a Lexel 95 but a couple of Lexel 88s came across my path.
James
|
|
|
Post by Ron Walker on Apr 18, 2022 17:33:26 GMT -7
Posted by: James Hicks Oct 22 2009, 05:59 PM QUOTE(Owen Phairis @ May 4 2009, 01:54 PM) * I worry about using electrical conduit as a structual component.... Owen - Well, my project has slowed. I had hoped to have the framing done by now for the floors under the dome. I have had some health problems so that got in the way of the project etc. Now that I am better, we are going to start framing in the next couple of weeks. My health problems fortunately allowed me some time to think about the project once the emotional enthusiasm was quelched. Owen, you are right! And to anyone else who is considering a geodesic structure, you will want to carefully consider the following: Originally, as you will see in this thread, I was going to use EMT steel conduit and 20-year PVC Coated Vinyl outdoor Fabric. The same stuff they use in the best Awnings and in inflated roof structures, like the 100,000 seat arena in Vancouver BC. Reasonable, but we get many feet of snow here. There are also lots of trees around the dome with lots of debris falling, not to mention broken branches when it is windy or weighted with too much snow that can fall onto the dome and puncture and tear the fabric. At the least, the resin in the fir tree needles that constantly fall or the sap that falls will erode the cover very quickly. Much faster than its 20-year life DO NOT USE FABRIC AND EMT FOR A PERMANENT INSTALLATION! You can build a cheap strong dome this way but I wouldn't do it unless I wanted a portable structure. DO NOT BUILD AN ODD FREQUENCY GEODESIC! Geodesic domes that are built with an even frequency like 4V, 6V, 8V etc. (The higher the frequency the smoother and more spherical the dome.) are exact 1/2 spheres and have a co-planar bottom strut arrangement. This makes sealing the bottom of the dome or placing it on a stem riser wall MUCH EASIER! Odd frequency domes are actually 5/8th spheres. Thus, the bottom of the dome is slightly smaller than the dome's radius. I am stuck with a 5V dome as the part of the foundation forming the 25-sided polygon for the lower floors and stem walls has already been set based on the EMT/Fabric dome idea. BIG MISTAKE! This is Ok as it will look nice being more of a ball but it will be much harder to build over the stem wall and seal around the base. DO NOT BUILD A HUB-BASED DOME! An EMT conduit dome has a hub point with a bolt where the struts meet. So do the wooden domes offered by many kit suppliers or contractors. These are not as structurally sound as a plywood panel dome with 2x6 construction. This method of building is HUB-LESS! The 2x6s meet at the axial point where you often find a hub but are integrated in such a way as to very tightly integrate the structural integrity. These are easier to seal air-tight, thus have much better R-Factors for insulation, have less leaks, are easier to roof and surpass building codes standards and are relatively inexpensive when compared to fabric EMT (actually cheaper for DIY-ers) or the nightmare of framing and sealing in a hub-based wooden dome. AVOID DIY CONSTRUCTION!?!? It is said that, "The stingy man spends the most money". I have found this to be true. I could have bought a dome from "Good Karma Domes", had it delivered and installed for less than what I will be spending to fix my errors in judgement and construction. Please visit: www.goodkarmadomes.com/If you are interested in Professional Geodesic Construction for your planetarium, get the $15- dollar DVD. It is worth every penny! His website has really good data and comparisons to other "traditional" wooden geodesic building too. If you really want to do it yourself get "The Dome Book 2". It is a large paper-back about 11 x 17" printed cheaply in the 1970s. This book has ALL THE DATA YOU NEED about Chord factors, axial angles, face angles and Dihedral angles for odd frequencies up to 5V and even frequencies up to 8V. It is currently out of print and selling for around $40-. I got one in decent shape from Amazon for $39- Again, worth every penny! So hopefully, someone reading this thread can avoid some costly mistakes! Geodesic information is not very abundant on the net as compared to traditional construction methods. I got a little too emotionally caught up in the excitement and failed to think this through. I expect there will be other 'gotchyas' on this project. I'll certainly report them as soon as they surface. In the end this will all work out well. The Geodesic is still going to be a 5V (5 Frequency) 36-foot or so dome. I say "36-foot or so" because of the changes in the stem wall measurements from the fabric EMT based structure vs wood panels is different. The stem walls must be built first then I can back engineer the dome to fit. It looks like it will be somewhere between 36 and 37 feet in diameter... Bigger would be better biggrin.gif
|
|
|
Post by Ron Walker on Apr 18, 2022 17:33:43 GMT -7
Posted by: moonmagic Oct 22 2009, 07:48 PM Just know we are all here, cheering you on. All of this stuff is a learn as you go process. Building exterior domes, even for pro's is a big task. I think I've decided that the best way for me to ever build my own planetarium building is to learn to SIGN a CHECK! Now if I just had some $$$ in the account...(If I ever have to do more than that, I'm going to be in real trouble.)
Thanks for the update. I wish you well.mm
|
|
|
Post by Ron Walker on Apr 18, 2022 17:33:54 GMT -7
Posted by: Owen Phairis Oct 22 2009, 09:58 PM Hi James,
Sorry to hear about your problems, but am glad to hear you are back on track.
I, for one, am really looking forward to seeing your projector in operation.
Please keep us posted and updated and I hope the worst is now far behind you.
"O"
|
|
|
Post by Ron Walker on Apr 18, 2022 17:34:07 GMT -7
Posted by: Ken Miller Oct 25 2009, 07:45 AM I'm as excited about everybody else about this project. My dream is to have a piece of property where I could build something like this, but I don't think it will ever happen. I hope to see you follow this through to completion, and I hope that I came to visit when it is done.
|
|
|
Post by Ron Walker on Apr 18, 2022 17:34:23 GMT -7
Posted by: Ken Miller Jun 23 2010, 01:09 PM I was just checking here for news of progress on this project. It looks like it's been a while with no update. I keep dreaming of a network of home-built planetariums across the country, but it seems to be slow coming. I know of Gare's Sumner Skies, Brian's Phoenix area planetarium, Owen's museum planetarium, and my two small planetariums. Are there any others? Does anybody have one actively in the works? Ron Walker's seems to be on hold right now, although he did have a small fabric dome.
There are some like the Deer Valley High School planetarium that are largely built through individual efforts to create something with a minimum of resources. There are a few others that I have heard of that involved temporary cardboard or fabric domes, but I don't know much about their status.
Ken
|
|
|
Post by Ron Walker on Apr 18, 2022 17:34:46 GMT -7
Posted by: Owen Phairis Jun 23 2010, 03:42 PM QUOTE(Ken Miller @ Jun 23 2010, 01:09 PM) * I was just checking here for news of progress on this project. It looks like it's been a while with no update. I keep dreaming of a network of home-built planetariums across the country, but it seems to be slow coming. I know of Gare's Sumner Skies, Brian's Phoenix area planetarium, Owen's museum planetarium, and my two small planetariums. Are there any others? Does anybody have one actively in the works? Ron Walker's seems to be on hold right now, although he did have a small fabric dome.
There are some like the Deer Valley High School planetarium that are largely built through individual efforts to create something with a minimum of resources. There are a few others that I have heard of that involved temporary cardboard or fabric domes, but I don't know much about their status.
Ken
I believe I heard that James ran into trouble with his geodesic dome when he was using electrical conduit as a structual element, however I may be mistaken. I too would love to go visit him and his Goto projector.
I wonder where Lee has been with his homemade dome?
"O"
|
|
|
Post by Ron Walker on Apr 18, 2022 17:35:02 GMT -7
Posted by: ltkhoover Jun 26 2010, 06:48 AM QUOTE(Owen Phairis @ Jun 23 2010, 05:42 PM) * I believe I heard that James ran into trouble with his geodesic dome when he was using electrical conduit as a structual element, however I may be mistaken. I too would love to go visit him and his Goto projector.
I wonder where Lee has been with his homemade dome?
"O"
Alas, planatarium activities have been reduced to occasional lurking activities until this fall. Family/summer activities have assumed priorities. Daughter is in high school and I have been sucked into building props for the marching band (starting to build a 10' x 170' wall on wheels that has to be able to be moved on and off a football field in one and a half minutes...).
I am half way through rebuilding the planet cage of the Apollo III. After the projector is up and running, I have a design running through my head of a self supporting 12' dome made out of 1/2" insulation foam......
Lee
|
|
|
Post by Ron Walker on Apr 18, 2022 17:35:22 GMT -7
Posted by: Barnetarium May 11 2011, 06:02 AM QUOTE(bjsullivan @ Feb 18 2008, 07:21 PM) * I was unsuccessful in locating the GOTO MARS that was once located at the Chaffee Planetarium. It was transferred to the Detroit Science Center some number of years ago, so I am told. Last summer it was purchased by a private party after the Detroit Science Center considered a number of other disposal options. I have been unsuccessful in contacting the individual who purchased this projector. I was hoping that they would post pictures of the Chaffee GOTO MARS M-1 machine in our forum.
Perhaps someday this person will read this and share what they know. Jim has been instrumental in providing many of the missing pieces to the "where's the projector puzzle" for the machine that was once installed at Jeffco and another machine that was retrieved from the Smithsonian. Jim is sympathetic to our preservation cause and has been very helpful!
I am the person who acquired the Projector from the Detroit Science Center. I joined the Observatory Central site years ago and have not checked in for a while, until now.
I rescued it in Summer, 2007. I have used it to entertain Friends and Neighbors with an informative Show that include Music, Photos and Video, along with a session of stargazing which is projected onto the ceiling of my Historic 40 x 60 Barn. During the star-gazing portion, people (16 capacity) rotate on two church pews attached to an old Auto Show Turntable. I have photos and Local News coverage available for you to review. I also he a binder with all the research I have done to date. I am happy to share with you.
Unfortunately, I am forced to move this month and must place the Show in storage for a while.
Craig Smith Clarkston, MI
|
|
|
Post by Ron Walker on Apr 18, 2022 17:35:38 GMT -7
Posted by: Ron Walker May 11 2011, 10:33 AM QUOTE(Barnetarium @ May 11 2011, 06:02 AM) * I am the person who acquired the Projector from the Detroit Science Center. I joined the Observatory Central site years ago and have not checked in for a while, until now.
I rescued it in Summer, 2007. I have used it to entertain Friends and Neighbors with an informative Show that include Music, Photos and Video, along with a session of stargazing which is projected onto the ceiling of my Historic 40 x 60 Barn. During the star-gazing portion, people (16 capacity) rotate on two church pews attached to an old Auto Show Turntable. I have photos and Local News coverage available for you to review. I also he a binder with all the research I have done to date. I am happy to share with you.
Unfortunately, I am forced to move this month and must place the Show in storage for a while.
Craig Smith Clarkston, MI
I would love to see any and all pictures as well as peruse your binder.
|
|
|
Post by Ron Walker on Apr 18, 2022 17:36:23 GMT -7
Posted by: Ron Walker May 11 2011, 10:33 AM QUOTE(Barnetarium @ May 11 2011, 06:02 AM) * I am the person who acquired the Projector from the Detroit Science Center. I joined the Observatory Central site years ago and have not checked in for a while, until now.
I rescued it in Summer, 2007. I have used it to entertain Friends and Neighbors with an informative Show that include Music, Photos and Video, along with a session of stargazing which is projected onto the ceiling of my Historic 40 x 60 Barn. During the star-gazing portion, people (16 capacity) rotate on two church pews attached to an old Auto Show Turntable. I have photos and Local News coverage available for you to review. I also he a binder with all the research I have done to date. I am happy to share with you.
Unfortunately, I am forced to move this month and must place the Show in storage for a while.
Craig Smith Clarkston, MI
I would love to see any and all pictures as well as peruse your binder.
|
|
|
Post by Ron Walker on Apr 18, 2022 17:36:38 GMT -7
Posted by: bjsullivan May 11 2011, 01:20 PM QUOTE(Ron Walker @ May 11 2011, 12:33 PM) * I would love to see any and all pictures as well as peruse your binder. I would too ! I spent many hours searching for this GOTO MARS when the trail went cold at the Detroit Science Center. I am glad you have it !!! I never knew where it went until one day I saw it on Detroit Craigslist and then a news item that it had appeared on a Michigan TV spot.
|
|
|
Post by Ron Walker on Apr 18, 2022 17:36:56 GMT -7
Posted by: Barnetarium May 11 2011, 01:24 PM QUOTE(bjsullivan @ May 11 2011, 04:20 PM) * I would too ! I spent many hours searching for this GOTO MARS when the trail went cold at the Detroit Science Center. I am glad you have it !!! I never knew where it went until one day I saw it on Detroit Craigslist and then a news item that it had appeared on a Michigan TV spot.
I will assemble all assets and research to date and get back with you guys. Be patient, it may take a while!!
Craig
|
|