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Post by Ron Walker on Jun 13, 2022 14:52:05 GMT -7
Posted by: Philostopher1 Apr 17 2018, 11:05 PM QUOTE(charles jones @ Apr 17 2018, 09:02 PM) * Your clever use of materials for the occulting device in the star globes is inspiring. It looks great so far.
Following up on what I called the "floating slip ring:" since both parts are NOT connected to each other, you will have to find a way to have them rotate around a bearing or hub that connects them, and that is independent of the star globe. One good thing I just realized you wouldn't really have to have the "rings" spring loaded. Just a little separation from the star globe to allow for inaccuracy and a connection (perhaps a rod or bolt) from it to a hole in the outer perimeter of the rings. The star globe rotation would in a sense drive the slip ring. There can be all kinds of allowable "backlash" in this type of arrangement.
But all things being said, if you can make the axis more precise, there is no need for any of this. It is always a little experimentation--trial and error, before the final product works.
I have constructed some of my magic illusions over and over till I got the result I wanted.
I am looking into the hubs you suggested, and devising a new plan...
But wait, you said "Magic illusions"?
First the picture of my old starball in the posts above, was being used by Jeff McBride via Gary Stadler for his magic show. Also, my ex is James George who invented the ITR and created Sorcery Manufacturing. I know many people in that field. Jay Scott Barry, Daryl, Dean Dill, Jim Steinmeyer and others. I used to help Cris Angel on the phone before he got famous. So do you build stage illusions?
My previous business was laser light shows and multi-media.
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Post by Ron Walker on Jun 13, 2022 14:52:29 GMT -7
Posted by: charles jones Apr 18 2018, 12:19 AM OMG!!! It's a small world, after all .......as my other friend Richard Sherman wrote.
Yes, professionally I have been a performer, illusionist, and creator of a number of magic illusions. I know Jim Steinmeyer, Criss, and Jeff very well. This is crazy!!
But there are other professional magicians that hold astronomy as a hobby as well. Even Johnny Carson was a magician and an astronomy nut.
I love the mechanics of magic illusions and thus have not only created some original effects, but constructed the props themselves, and built them for other magicians. But my other love is for astronomy and the mechanics of planetariums. I'd probably machine and construct an orrery but I like the show presentation.......so it's planetarium projectors. A not video planetariums, but the optic - mechanical type.
Writing and creating a planetarium "show" is no different than any other performance. In a play, a magic act, or a planetarium "show" there is a beginning, a middle, and a big finale ending. That is the formula! It always works. Ron has undoubtedly found this out.
I always pictured the sunset and the stars coming out at night. The beginning of the show. The awe that captures the audience. Then you hold their attention with a series of discussions on the current topic.
But the finale.....is the glorious sunrise. Telling your audience that everything is right again, the sun rises again, there is a hopeful tomorrow. And of course music that you employ will not only create the mood but will emphasize your unspoken words in the planetarium show. And that's MAGICAL.
I don't like going to a planetarium and seeing a video presentation which anyone can watch on TV documentaries. To me it should be a live presentation, done by the lecturer who has the skill to command his audience's attention, and tell the story. Don't get me started on this, but in today's society it is far easier to buy a pre-recorded presentation and play it for the planetarium audience. The reason for this is to make a planetarium show a turn key operation--an amusement park show. But from the beginning planetarium projectors were not meant for this. I understand, it is not easy auditioning talented lectures for a planetarium show. And finding a lecturer that is willing to do 4 - 8 planetarium shows in a row--forget it. But, many magicians do that-- day in and day out.
The point is that a planetarium show must be informative but must be entertaining. And I think that the "entertaining part" varies from location to location. As the planetarium lecturer you need to speak the language of the local people. In order to hold interest, you need to bring astronomy to their level and slight your remarks to be understood with the audience in your community. Guess what. A pre-recorded video can't do that.
So, Jamie, I am saying that when your projector is completed and you invite friends in to see the planetarium projector demonstrated, you will be actually being doing your first "planetarium show." You will want to be prepared, even in a small way, to make it interesting to those who may may not really care. Give them preview of what you want to show them later so they will come back.
After the mechanics, the engineering and the construction.....it's SHOW-BIZ!
This you can look forward to after your projector is finished and the projection dome is constructed. Then your own planetarium becomes a magical experience for you and your visitors.
Charles
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Post by Ron Walker on Jun 13, 2022 14:53:02 GMT -7
Posted by: Philostopher1 Apr 18 2018, 12:50 AM QUOTE(charles jones @ Apr 18 2018, 12:19 AM) * OMG!!! It's a small world, after all .......as my other friend Richard Sherman wrote.
Yes, professionally I have been a performer, illusionist, and creator of a number of magic illusions. I know Jim Steinmeyer, Criss, and Jeff very well. This is crazy!!
But there are other professional magicians that hold astronomy as a hobby as well. Even Johnny Carson was a magician and an astronomy nut.
I love the mechanics of magic illusions and thus have not only created some original effects, but constructed the props themselves, and built them for other magicians. But my other love is for astronomy and the mechanics of planetariums. I'd probably machine and construct an orrery but I like the show presentation.......so it's planetarium projectors. A not video planetariums, but the optic - mechanical type.
Writing and creating a planetarium "show" is no different than any other performance. In a play, a magic act, or a planetarium "show" there is a beginning, a middle, and a big finale ending. That is the formula! It always works. Ron has undoubtedly found this out.
I always pictured the sunset and the stars coming out at night. The beginning of the show. The awe that captures the audience. Then you hold their attention with a series of discussions on the current topic.
But the finale.....is the glorious sunrise. Telling your audience that everything is right again, the sun rises again, there is a hopeful tomorrow. And of course music that you employ will not only create the mood but will emphasize your unspoken words in the planetarium show. And that's MAGICAL.
I don't like going to a planetarium and seeing a video presentation which anyone can watch on TV documentaries. To me it should be a live presentation, done by the lecturer who has the skill to command his audience's attention, and tell the story. Don't get me started on this, but in today's society it is far easier to buy a pre-recorded presentation and play it for the planetarium audience. The reason for this is to make a planetarium show a turn key operation--an amusement park show. But from the beginning planetarium projectors were not meant for this. I understand, it is not easy auditioning talented lectures for a planetarium show. And finding a lecturer that is willing to do 4 - 8 planetarium shows in a row--forget it. But, many magicians do that-- day in and day out.
The point is that a planetarium show must be informative but must be entertaining. And I think that the "entertaining part" varies from location to location. As the planetarium lecturer you need to speak the language of the local people. In order to hold interest, you need to bring astronomy to their level and slight your remarks to be understood with the audience in your community. Guess what. A pre-recorded video can't do that.
So, Jamie, I am saying that when your projector is completed and you invite friends in to see the planetarium projector demonstrated, you will be actually being doing your first "planetarium show." You will want to be prepared, even in a small way, to make it interesting to those who may may not really care. Give them preview of what you want to show them later so they will come back.
After the mechanics, the engineering and the construction.....it's SHOW-BIZ!
This you can look forward to after your projector is finished and the projection dome is constructed. Then your own planetarium becomes a magical experience for you and your visitors.
Charles c
Most of these guys are just associates through James. They'll know James George but not me really. I was in the background and it's been since about 2002 since I saw Daryl and Jay Scott Barry. about that time I talked to Criss to get him thread reels overnighted to him for his off Broadway show. And I met Jim Steinmeyer in San Francisco at a lecture with James, and Dean at conventions we went to. So I can't call them friends by any means. But I know the industry, and James and I were planning a performance art Dark Side of the Moon Show.
Regarding planetarium shows, the last one I was at was at the Neru Planetarium in Bangalore India. they had a Zeiss MK4 in desperate need of maintenance. You could barely see the stars and the dome and a big water stain. Prior to that was at the Hayden.
James and I went to NY for new years in 2008. Our flight was a red-eye so we were in Manhattan by 8:00am, and couldn't get the hotel room until 4:00pm. So we went to the Museum of Natural History, dog tired after traveling for like 17 hours with the layovers.
The Hayden was to be the highlight of the trip for me, even over the three Broadway shows which included Mary Poppins that Jim Steinmeyer did the illusions for. So we did a whirlwind museum tour waiting for the first planetarium show at 1:00pm. The glass cube with the sphere inside was screaming that "something wonderful is going to happen". The line formed and we had out numbered seat tickets in hand.
As soon as the usher lady opened the doors I was trying to get a glimpse of the Zeiss Universarium that I understood was installed there. In 2008 that was state of the art for an optical mechanical projector. As we drew closer and walked into this huge beautiful dome my eyes were drawn to the center. No Projector. I actually felt pannicky. As we walked near the center to find our seats I noticed there were two panels in the middle of the floor. I thought, "Oh, okay these will open and the projector will majestically rise up like Harold at the H.R MacMillan Planetarium in Vancouver BC. Cool."
We found our seats and I am scrutinizing the panels on the floor in a state of denial, then it dawned on me to locate the console. I looked around the room and nothing. Getting real pannicky at this point...
By now the black usher lady with a heavy inner city accent starts unenthusiastically droning on about safety, and the no food and drink rules etc. My attention was drawn towards her right at the moment she opened a small electrical panel on the wall to reveal to large dimly glowing buttons, one green and one red. She pushed the green one, closed the panel and walked out the doors we came in at.
A few moments later the lights began dimming and Tim Robbins voice filled the room as video credits began to fill the dome...
This was hands down THE MOST DISAPPOINTING MOMENT OF MY LIFE!
I have seen children wailing at Disneyland because Star Tours was closed for maintenance. I know EXACTLY how they felt in that moment. In a way I was almost in shock. This was THE HAYDEN! It ought to have been the quintessential planetarium experience.
So I think I can safely and honestly say that when my projector is done in my little dome, it will be better than the Hayden...
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Post by Ron Walker on Jun 13, 2022 14:53:28 GMT -7
Posted by: Philostopher1 Apr 19 2018, 10:29 PM QUOTE(Ron Walker @ Apr 17 2018, 10:42 AM) * Random thoughts from a week of taxes and a flu heated brain. You can never have enough slip rings. (I started with forty and ran out.) Use screws and nuts wherever you plan to use rivets. (Easier to take apart when you need to.) Keep it mechanical if you can. (A3P's still work fine while STP's just take up space.) There are millions of dead computers with at least thirty operating systems that are no longer supported. (Things attached to them will probably never work again.) Build the 23 1/2 degree Earth axis tilt into the central core. (One small DC motor to control a function rather then a computer controlled stepper set.) Sorry for the delay Ron, your comments slipped past me. On slip rings, you're absolutely right. We don't want to be locked out of installing new thingamabobs on our projectors. My laser light show career arose about the same time the DMX512 protocol emerged for lighting. DMX is the MIDI of the lighting industry, its very robust and reliable. Its firmware base rather than software based. Every rock and roll show, television show, broadway show, Las Vegas shows and lighting all use DMX. Probably modern planetariums too! Through 3 wires there are 512 channels available to configure as you like! This is why I am running my motors and encoders through redundant slip rings, then any other devices and effects can run off DMX. Stars and milkyway are tied together and just get a single ring for a control voltage to turn off and on. Setting circles, zodiac and anything else will respond to DMX. I have this lighting controller to handle that. It's a leftover from my Jean Michel Jarre Tribute show (next picture) As far as the drive system for the projector, it is also firmware based and entirely independent of the need for software. As such, software is a luxury. The drive system will be based on Arduino or Raspberry Pi, perhaps a combination. These are microcontrollers. Once the code is in place it's solid. It runs on input voltages from switches, encoders, potentiometers, sensors or whatever you care to use. As you know, microcontrollers are in just about everything from coffee makers to cars and aircraft. My system is being approached similarly to CNC. In this way I can manually control the machine or let software like Stellarium drive. In order to run with Stellarium, or Cartes Du Ciel etc. ASCOM drivers are installed with the code that runs the steppers in Arduino\Raspberry Pi. The serial data from Stellarium sends and receives whats going on. For example, This lets you control a GoTo telescope. Here is a project I am going to adapt to my projector in the first phase. This uses an Arduino to monitor encoders in a PushTo telescope so you can see where you are pointing in Stellarium. www.instructables.com/id/Control-Your-Telescope-Using-Stellarium-Arduino/On the 23.5 degree tilt, I don't really need it since my sun moon and planets will be separate from the projector. The ecliptic plane and paths are independent of the projector. In this way I can place the viewer anywhere in the solar system -though, I have no plans to include Uranus or Neptune etc. E.g If I wanted to show what the ecliptic would be like if Vega was the North star I'll be able to do that. I am going for a Space Transit Simulator type projector rather than strictly earth based. In short, there is no way in hell that I will allow this to be dependent on Windows, IOS, Linux, Android or anything else that comes down the pipe of time. It's not a Planetarium without a console. From my perspective, that's part of the mystery and romance of it! To that end, I am planning something along these lines
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Post by Ron Walker on Jun 13, 2022 14:53:59 GMT -7
Posted by: Ron Walker Apr 20 2018, 12:21 PM All of that stuff scares me to no end, probably because I really don't understand it. SMPTE time code was as far as I ever got.
I mention the 23.5 degree tilt more for the procession of the nodes then the planet position (but that would be a plus smile.gif )
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Post by Ron Walker on Jun 13, 2022 14:54:17 GMT -7
Posted by: Philostopher1 Apr 21 2018, 10:07 AM QUOTE(Ron Walker @ Apr 20 2018, 12:21 PM) * All of that stuff scares me to no end, probably because I really don't understand it. SMPTE time code was as far as I ever got.
I mention the 23.5 degree tilt more for the procession of the nodes then the planet position (but that would be a plus smile.gif )
SMPTE was tricky to grasp for me. I was using it across ADAT, DVD Players and Pangolin. I was driven by a contract for a show to learn it. So I HAD to learn it. I found a couple sites that coders are on who offer their services. Some are free some aren't. I can manage some basic stuff, but when it comes to things like incorporating math functions into a control surface I am completely lost. I am terrible at math.
So if I want to do precessional nodes I have to be able to take the formulas and write code for the variables that allow them to be changed via data input from either a control surface or other software. Someone has already written this code, it's out there... somewhere... I have no idea how this is done. This is way past the relatively simple mechanics of an Orrery.
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Post by Ron Walker on Jun 13, 2022 14:54:38 GMT -7
Posted by: Ron Walker May 2 2018, 09:12 AM QUOTE(Philostopher1 @ Apr 21 2018, 10:07 AM) * SMPTE was tricky to grasp for me. I was using it across ADAT, DVD Players and Pangolin. I was driven by a contract for a show to learn it. So I HAD to learn it. I found a couple sites that coders are on who offer their services. Some are free some aren't. I can manage some basic stuff, but when it comes to things like incorporating math functions into a control surface I am completely lost. I am terrible at math.
So if I want to do precessional nodes I have to be able to take the formulas and write code for the variables that allow them to be changed via data input from either a control surface or other software. Someone has already written this code, it's out there... somewhere... I have no idea how this is done. This is way past the relatively simple mechanics of an Orrery.
Being in the film business SMPTE was great as my first major set up was with a reel to reel eight track for my sound mixes. I could run the work print and the reel to reel would follow it frame for frame. I added another eight track as things progressed and ADAT's later. It was fun watching all of the tape decks run to chase the picture during a mix.
Just seems so much easier to incorporate the 23.5 tilt into the basic projector rather then a computer program, but if that is what you want then that is what you get.
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Post by Ron Walker on Jun 13, 2022 14:55:15 GMT -7
Posted by: Philostopher1 May 2 2018, 11:14 AM QUOTE(Ron Walker @ May 2 2018, 09:12 AM) * Being in the film business SMPTE was great as my first major set up was with a reel to reel eight track for my sound mixes. I could run the work print and the reel to reel would follow it frame for frame. I added another eight track as things progressed and ADAT's later. It was fun watching all of the tape decks run to chase the picture during a mix.
Just seems so much easier to incorporate the 23.5 tilt into the basic projector rather then a computer program, but if that is what you want then that is what you get.
You're right it is easier.
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Post by Ron Walker on Jun 13, 2022 14:55:33 GMT -7
Posted by: Philostopher1 May 2 2018, 07:40 PM May 2 2018
Project Update
As per Chuck Jones suggestion I got some new hub components. I haven't done the rebuild yet. I managed to salvage the big drive pulley and clean it up for reuse.
The fork is coming along. I got the latitude bearings mounted today though there is more. I have to make the motor, encoder and belt tensioner mount still and install them, and there is a fair amount of clean-up and detailing to do. Once the central hub plate is in place everything should be quite solid at least to the limits of ABS and carbon fiber.
Here's a closer view of the latitude drive pulley.
And a sunlit view of the fork. The carbon fiber looks very different in various lighting conditions. In a diffuse light it's midnight blue\black. The purple tones hint at my color scheme.
I am already moving on another projector using plates and camera lenses. Here I am testing a Canon 18-55mm lens with a laser printed test pattern. This particular lens has a small image circle as it was deaigned for DSLRs. With the emergence of DSLRs decent full frame lenses with a 43 mm image circle are entering the market pretty inexpensively. I just ordered the first of the 32 I will need.
I should mention I am in communication with Takayushi Ohira of Megastar fame we are currently discussing various methods of plate making.
More to come!
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Post by Ron Walker on Jun 13, 2022 14:55:52 GMT -7
Posted by: charles jones May 2 2018, 08:12 PM Man you are moving on this! Great!
The die-cast flanges will not be as precise as the others, but I have used them and work fine for what we're doing.
Do you think you will do a turn around and go optical projection instead of pinpoint with the LED and special lens?
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Post by Ron Walker on Jun 13, 2022 14:56:10 GMT -7
Posted by: Philostopher1 May 2 2018, 09:48 PM QUOTE(charles jones @ May 2 2018, 08:12 PM) * Man you are moving on this! Great!
The die-cast flanges will not be as precise as the others, but I have used them and work fine for what we're doing.
Do you think you will do a turn around and go optical projection instead of pinpoint with the LED and special lens?
Yeah, I needed a larger flange and smaller. The die cast are made for slower rotating tools as you know. So at under 5rpms or so for a projector, they should work fine.
I am staying the course on the pinhole & lens projector, and will start the lens-making journey around august. I am going to get the core projector done, and pinholes drilled first. Then start on the grinding\lapping\polishing machine for the lenses. I expect a steep learning curve there...
The optical lens\plate projector will slowly emerge over the next couple of years. I am thinking along the lines of the Minolta Cosmo Leap design using plates for the stars from about 1st to 6th or 7th magnitude, then Shaula to Sirius with individual leds a'la pin spots. Also I would like to get the planets to saturn, sun and moon on the projector.
I need to build my confidence up, start using my CNC, and get another small drill-mill-lathe for this one. I am getting addicted to this, and its about all I want to do anymore...
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Post by Ron Walker on Jun 13, 2022 14:56:28 GMT -7
Posted by: Ron Walker May 3 2018, 12:08 PM Planetariumidus is a deadly virus. Once it takes hold it is all you can do. You are doing extremely well.
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Post by Ron Walker on Jun 13, 2022 14:56:49 GMT -7
Posted by: Philostopher1 May 6 2018, 08:58 PM May 6 2018
Project Update
Worked on the latitude drive hub this weekend. I have to re-mount the tensioner as the belt is too tight at the moment.
Here are some views
Latitude Motor is a NEMA 17 with a 19:1 planetary gearhead
Side view of belt path etc. Bearings are sandwiched in place see next picture
Bearing views front and back with hub removed
Hub plate, pulleys belt and tensioner
And finally a close up of the motor and mount. There are three springs to level the motor with the drive pulley so it won't walk the belt off. Once, that part is functioning and stable with the fulley assembled hub, I'll replace the springs with precise spacers.
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Post by Ron Walker on Jun 13, 2022 14:57:13 GMT -7
Posted by: Ron Walker May 7 2018, 09:14 AM Looking good! You might want to consider getting your timing belt gears with side flanges. There are so many things that can make them run off to the side and the flanges keep them on track. From experience.
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Post by Ron Walker on Jun 13, 2022 14:57:30 GMT -7
Posted by: Philostopher1 May 7 2018, 10:00 AM QUOTE(Ron Walker @ May 7 2018, 09:14 AM) * Looking good! You might want to consider getting your timing belt gears with side flanges. There are so many things that can make them run off to the side and the flanges keep them on track. From experience.
I have to make my own flanges. They weren't available from B&B as a stock item....
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