Books on Planetariums

Posted by: mrgare5050 May 8 2007, 04:25 AM
Anyone interested in the history of the planetarium will try I suppose to collect old books on the subject - Steven LJ Russo has posted this on Dome - L - anyone else have a copy? Ive asked Mr Russo if he can provide any images for our archives. Any other old books on the subject? gare
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Recently at a Salvation Army thrift store, I purchased an interesting book;
"From the Aratus Globe to the Zeiss Planetarium". It was written by Helmut
Werner, and published in Germany in 1953. It is written in English. I
think I paid two dollars for it!

The book details the history of the planetarium, and specifically the Zeiss
Planetarium, complete with photos of the first planetariums, orrery's, how
the planet "cages" work on the Zeiss, etc. There is even a blue/red 3D
photo of an early Zeiss on wheels (Zeiss IV maybe) and the glasses are
included.

Photos of Clyde Fisher, the old Hayden in NY, the Buhl, and the Zeiss plants
in Germany are abundant.

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Posted by: Ken Miller May 8 2007, 10:15 AM
Wow! What a really cool book. I checked one the usual sources, and the first hit I got wanted $65 for it. I have some other sources that I will check later to see if I can do better. There are some sources overseas that have it cheaper, including one in German.

I like to collect books, and I realize now that I haven't gone on a quest for planetarium books yet. I need to be working right now, so I don't have time to pursue this at the moment.
Posted by: Ron Walker May 8 2007, 10:35 AM
In the early 60's I purchased a copy of this book at the Adler in Chicago. It had been my "bible" for information on the design and construction of all my experiments. It has been what held my interest together all these years. Since my 're-birth" or perhaps "re-infection" with the dreaded disease, I have looked to collect other books on the subject and they are few and far between. From the web, I have collected over three 3 inch binders full of articles on planetaria, but the books are the backbone of it all. I only have four and they are listed here.

"From The Aratus Globe to the Zeiss Planetarium" Revised Edition 1957
"Adler Planetarium and Astronomical Museum" 1935
"The Planetarium and Atmospherium" 1968
"The Story of the Alexander F. Morrison Planetarium" 1955

Not many, but full of great information and pictures.
Posted by: Ken Miller May 8 2007, 11:22 AM
The Morrison Planetarium story is a really fascinating one. Talk about home-built planetariums!

The Aratus Globe to the Zeiss Planetarium book is not that easy to come by these days. I located three copies available on the web in this country, priced at $65, $75, and $145 respectively. There are several copies available from dealers overseas, but I haven't determined whether they would be willing to ship to the US.

Russo has some "lucky stars" over his head!
Posted by: Ron Walker May 8 2007, 12:00 PM
QUOTE(Ken Miller @ May 8 2007, 11:22 AM) *
The Morrison Planetarium story is a really fascinating one. Talk about home-built planetariums!

The Aratus Globe to the Zeiss Planetarium book is not that easy to come by these days. I located three copies available on the web in this country, priced at $65, $75, and $145 respectively. There are several copies available from dealers overseas, but I haven't determined whether they would be willing to ship to the US.

Russo has some "lucky stars" over his head!

Yes, $2 for the book is unbelievable! I seem to remember (my memory works better for stuff back then then stuff now) paying $7.95 in 1060's dollars. But it was and is worth it, a great book on the operation of the Zeiss.

I know its been out of print for a long time now, not at all sure about the copyright.
Posted by: mrgare5050 May 8 2007, 04:14 PM


wait ron, whats that one in spanish we both have, remember that?
Posted by: Ron Walker May 8 2007, 06:42 PM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ May 8 2007, 04:14 PM) *
wait ron, whats that one in spanish we both have, remember that?

Gare, I think you have "From The Aratus Globe to the Zeiss Planetarium" in Spanish. Check and see. I seem to remember saying that I had it in English and it was still a great book because of the great pictures.

Posted by: mrgare5050 May 9 2007, 04:54 AM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ May 9 2007, 01:42 AM) *
Gare, I think you have "From The Aratus Globe to the Zeiss Planetarium" in Spanish. Check and see. I seem to remember saying that I had it in English and it was still a great book because of the great pictures.

and i cant find it at the moment! .. have you heard of this one below? i have not ...

May 2006 book reviews
Discover this month's offerings of astronomy titles.

Theaters of Time and Space
Jordan D. Marché II, 288 pages; Rutgers University Press, 2005; hardcover, $49.95

The planetarium has always been a special place for anyone interested in astronomy. For those who grew up during the Space Race of the 1950s and 1960s, the local planetarium was often a focus of interest. My first trip in 1963 to our local planetarium was an amazing adventure. Under a 6-meter-diameter canvas dome sat the planetarium's projector — an early Spitz model. I was already fascinated by astronomy, but as a 9-year-old, the beauty of the stars on that dome was overwhelming.

Posted by: Ron Walker May 9 2007, 10:09 AM
Have not heard of that book at all. What is surprising is it is so new.

There is one called "Geared To The Stars" that is suppose to be very good, but I know little about it.
Posted by: Ken Miller May 9 2007, 10:27 AM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ May 9 2007, 04:54 AM) *
and i cant find it at the moment! .. have you heard of this one below? i have not ...

May 2006 book reviews
Discover this month's offerings of astronomy titles.

Theaters of Time and Space
Jordan D. Marché II, 288 pages; Rutgers University Press, 2005; hardcover, $49.95

The planetarium has always been a special place for anyone interested in astronomy. For those who grew up during the Space Race of the 1950s and 1960s, the local planetarium was often a focus of interest. My first trip in 1963 to our local planetarium was an amazing adventure. Under a 6-meter-diameter canvas dome sat the planetarium's projector — an early Spitz model. I was already fascinated by astronomy, but as a 9-year-old, the beauty of the stars on that dome was overwhelming.
I did spot a used copy of that book yesterday, when I was looking for copies of the other book, so I went ahead and ordered it. If you look on Amazon.com, they give you random pages from the book to look at. The prose seems kind of leaden, but the subject matter is interesting. I hope they have some good pictures -- I couldn't tell from the description.
Posted by: Ken Miller May 9 2007, 10:30 AM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ May 9 2007, 10:09 AM) *
Have not heard of that book at all. What is surprising is it is so new.

There is one called "Geared To The Stars" that is suppose to be very good, but I know little about it.
You may not beleive this, but used copies of that book go for $650 or more. I found one dealer that wants $1500 for it.
Posted by: Ron Walker May 9 2007, 10:44 AM
QUOTE(Ken Miller @ May 9 2007, 10:30 AM) *
You may not beleive this, but used copies of that book go for $650 or more. I found one dealer that wants $1500 for it.

Why is it worth so much? I didn't think planetarium books where that much in demand.

Posted by: Ron Walker May 9 2007, 10:52 AM
QUOTE(Ken Miller @ May 9 2007, 10:27 AM) *
I did spot a used copy of that book yesterday, when I was looking for copies of the other book, so I went ahead and ordered it. If you look on Amazon.com, they give you random pages from the book to look at. The prose seems kind of leaden, but the subject matter is interesting. I hope they have some good pictures -- I couldn't tell from the description.

Could be an interesting book. Don't think there are many pictures but who knows. I ordered a used copy as well. Must increase my library of planetarium books. Could give some insight on the best way to "teach" under the dome.

Posted by: mrgare5050 May 10 2007, 04:35 AM
In September of 1933, the Adler Planetarium and Astronomy Museum produced a 62-page book about the new institution, authored by the facility's Director, Philip Fox. The book titled, Adler Planetarium and Astronomical Museum, An Account of the Optical Planetarium and a Brief Guide to the Museum, was published by the Lakeside Press, R.R. Donnelley & Sons Company of Chicago.

THIS is one we need! see dome-L today, there may be some related links ... gare-adler
Posted by: mrgare5050 May 10 2007, 04:40 AM


ken you have this, ron not sure if you do, but Brent Abbantatuono's spitz thesis has an incredibly obscure Bibliography of old old articles on planetariums - Brent has asked me not to distribute it any more, he can be reached directly at brentabba@earthlink.net - for example, who wouldnt want to read

magic lanterns of today - Travel magazine, October 1941

these kinds of articles used to appear in all manner of periodicals, thats what i hope to get back to, popularizing home planetaria in other media, not just astronomy rags . gare

Posted by: mrgare5050 May 10 2007, 04:42 AM

issue 9 going out to you today ron, 10 should be arriving shortly, we really need these online, that would be a tremendous service. this is the missing issue that miraculously came back to me, its about my first installation, something regrettably i tore down when i got the smith cylinder. g
Posted by: Ken Miller May 10 2007, 07:38 AM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ May 10 2007, 04:40 AM) *
Brent has asked me not to distribute it any more, he can be reached directly at brentabba@earthlink.net

I know he used to sell copies for $15 each, and I would have been happy to pay that, but I couldn't locate him. Does he not want any any more copies to get out, or is he just trying to get control over their distribution again? I would assume the latter is the case.

Posted by: Strgzr May 10 2007, 08:58 AM
I have been doing searches on the web and cannot find any "free" books or articles on planetariums! To many Brents out there trying to make a buck on this stuff I guess! Seems like old stuff like this would be in public domain or am I wrong?
Posted by: Ron Walker May 10 2007, 11:08 AM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ May 10 2007, 04:35 AM) *
In September of 1933, the Adler Planetarium and Astronomy Museum produced a 62-page book about the new institution, authored by the facility's Director, Philip Fox. The book titled, Adler Planetarium and Astronomical Museum, An Account of the Optical Planetarium and a Brief Guide to the Museum, was published by the Lakeside Press, R.R. Donnelley & Sons Company of Chicago.

THIS is one we need! see dome-L today, there may be some related links ... gare-adler

I have a copy of this book and it's great if your interested at all in the original Zeiss II. Has the best description of how the moon projector works that I've ever seen. I found my copy for about $5 and I see it is still available for that same amount. Since you spent time in the original Adler this book/pamphlet will bring back a lot of memories.

www.alibris.com/search/search.cfm?qwork=123166&pbest=4%2E95&qsort=p
Posted by: Ron Walker May 10 2007, 11:12 AM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ May 10 2007, 04:40 AM) *
ken you have this, ron not sure if you do, but Brent Abbantatuono's spitz thesis has an incredibly obscure Bibliography of old old articles on planetariums - Brent has asked me not to distribute it any more, he can be reached directly at brentabba@earthlink.net - for example, who wouldnt want to read

magic lanterns of today - Travel magazine, October 1941

these kinds of articles used to appear in all manner of periodicals, thats what i hope to get back to, popularizing home planetaria in other media, not just astronomy rags . gare

Do not have this. What's it all about?

Posted by: Ron Walker May 10 2007, 11:28 AM
QUOTE(Strgzr @ May 10 2007, 08:58 AM) *
I have been doing searches on the web and cannot find any "free" books or articles on planetariums! To many Brents out there trying to make a buck on this stuff I guess! Seems like old stuff like this would be in public domain or am I wrong?

You would think a lot of it would be in the public domain. The problem is there is not a lot of it out there. I could be wrong, but I don't think there are more then 1000 of any planetarium projector out there except for the original Spitz Jr.. Even with that one, I wonder how many actually survived over the years. There were only two Zeiss I's made, and the classic Zeiss dumbbell design, in all its various incarnations, number less then 100. The Spitz A-1 and all its variations numbered about 300 units and this is for a projector that brought planetariums to everyone. Even the Goto E-5 (of which I'm lucky enough to have one) which has been in production for over 30 years and still made today, only number about 300 units worldwide.

One of the reasons for the HPA and this forum is to collect such material and make it available to help those interested in this unusual hobby/passion. I think most of us with the true "disease" thought they were alone in this and it does one's heart well to know were not alone.

Another problem is that a lot of people think the original planetarium projectors are antediluvian and the material not worth preserving.

Posted by: Ken Miller May 10 2007, 11:33 AM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ May 10 2007, 11:12 AM) *
Do not have this. What's it all about?
The author wrote this as his college thesis, and it deals with the history of Spitz projectors and background related to restoring the Spitz model A in the school's planetarium. Lots of interesting information if you are into early Spitz Stuff.

The history of Spitz, the man himself, and his early planetarium development, is excerpted from this thesis and available on the internet (see my message below).
Posted by: Ken Miller May 10 2007, 12:37 PM
QUOTE(Ken Miller @ May 10 2007, 11:33 AM) *
The history of Spitz, the man himself, and his early planetarium development, is excerpted from this thesis and available on the Griffith Observatory website.
I just checked my facts and found that it is no longer on the Griffith website. You can find it on the IPS site at www.ips-planetarium.org/planetarian/articles/Armand.html
Posted by: Strgzr May 10 2007, 01:39 PM
QUOTE(Ken Miller @ May 10 2007, 12:37 PM) *
I just checked my facts and found that it is no longer on the Griffith website. You can find it on the IPS site at www.ips-planetarium.org/planetarian/articles/Armand.html
Thanks Ken!
But who has an entire copy of this thesis? I don't want to pay $15.00 for somebodies "homework"! ohmy.gif
Posted by: Ken Miller May 10 2007, 02:28 PM
QUOTE(Strgzr @ May 10 2007, 01:39 PM) *
Thanks Ken!
But who has an entire copy of this thesis? I don't want to pay $15.00 for somebodies "homework"! ohmy.gif
Well the University of Florida has a legal copy and Brent has a legal copy, and neither one seems likely to give you a free copy. Gare has apparently gotten his wrists slapped for making at least one unauthorizied copy. If I were to have an unauthorized copy, and admit to it, I might be in trouble. I certainly would have legal exposure if I were to provide unauthorized copies to someone else. The thing is more than 100 pages long (I think it might have been more like 200 pages), so the cost to reproduce it doesn't really give the author any profit.
Posted by: Strgzr May 10 2007, 02:44 PM
All right forget I asked! rolleyes.gif
Posted by: Ron Walker May 10 2007, 03:28 PM
QUOTE(Ken Miller @ May 10 2007, 12:37 PM) *
I just checked my facts and found that it is no longer on the Griffith website. You can find it on the IPS site at www.ips-planetarium.org/planetarian/articles/Armand.html

The chunk on IPS is Chapter four of the thesis. Can anyone give the titles of the remaining chapters and a brief synopsis of what they contain? Are there pictures to back up the written materials?

Posted by: Ken Miller May 10 2007, 03:48 PM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ May 10 2007, 03:28 PM) *
The chunk on IPS is Chapter four of the thesis. Can anyone give the titles of the remaining chapters and a brief synopsis of what they contain? Are there pictures to back up the written materials?
There are a few pictures, but unless you get a first generation copy, they may not be very clear. I won't be able to track down the chapter details until later. In the meantime, maybe smebody else can fill you in.
Posted by: Ron Walker May 10 2007, 03:54 PM
QUOTE(Ken Miller @ May 10 2007, 03:48 PM) *
There are a few pictures, but unless you get a first generation copy, they may not be very clear. I won't be able to track down the chapter details until later. In the meantime, maybe smebody else can fill you in.

I would probably get a first generation copy if I thought the material was worth having. Just want an idea of what the paper covers.

Posted by: mrgare5050 May 10 2007, 06:35 PM
QUOTE(Ken Miller @ May 10 2007, 02:38 PM) *
I know he used to sell copies for $15 each, and I would have been happy to pay that, but I couldn't locate him. Does he not want any any more copies to get out, or is he just trying to get control over their distribution again? I would assume the latter is the case.


yeah thats it and its fine with me, i was only doing it because he had disappeared, he's putting it in online form he said so thats the way to go, i want to ask him where he found all those old articles! gare
Posted by: mrgare5050 May 10 2007, 06:39 PM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ May 10 2007, 06:08 PM) *
I have a copy of this book and it's great if your interested at all in the original Zeiss II. Has the best description of how the moon projector works that I've ever seen. I found my copy for about $5 and I see it is still available for that same amount. Since you spent time in the original Adler this book/pamphlet will bring back a lot of memories.

www.alibris.com/search/search.cfm?qwork=123166&pbest=4%2E95&qsort=p


DUDE! Im ALL OVER THAT, i ordered one instantly at 8 bucks ...

gare, arriving home with a huge sack full of pvc pipes for my new mounting...
Posted by: mrgare5050 May 10 2007, 06:42 PM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ May 10 2007, 10:54 PM) *
I would probably get a first generation copy if I thought the material was worth having. Just want an idea of what the paper covers.


ron are you asking what the brent thesis covers, or something else?

by the way he didnt slap my wrists or anything, same with the emmons family, they seemed honored HPA had made Dicks paper available, brent just wants to know who has copies i think, hes a great guy, he still gives talks apparently on the history of planetariums.. actually i upset him most by mispelling his rather challenging name, AND .. the thesis actually has a very long 'official' title! gare
Posted by: Owen Phairis May 10 2007, 06:50 PM
Another great book, although hard to find, on the Zeiss machine is titled: "Captured Stars" written by Heinz Letsch and copyrighted in 1959. It has 125 really good illustrations. I think I paid around $ 60.00 for my copy. Might be extreamly difficult to find the english version.

Owen
Spitz A1, Spitz A3P, Nova III, GOTO S2
www.pictorialism.com
Posted by: Ron Walker May 10 2007, 07:30 PM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ May 10 2007, 06:42 PM) *
ron are you asking what the brent thesis covers, or something else?

by the way he didnt slap my wrists or anything, same with the emmons family, they seemed honored HPA had made Dicks paper available, brent just wants to know who has copies i think, hes a great guy, he still gives talks apparently on the history of planetariums.. actually i upset him most by mispelling his rather challenging name, AND .. the thesis actually has a very long 'official' title! gare

Yes.

Posted by: Ron Walker May 10 2007, 07:46 PM
QUOTE(Owen Phairis @ May 10 2007, 06:50 PM) *
Another great book, although hard to find, on the Zeiss machine is titled: "Captured Stars" written by Heinz Letsch and copyrighted in 1959. It has 125 really good illustrations. I think I paid around $ 60.00 for my copy. Might be extreamly difficult to find the english version.

Owen
Spitz A1, Spitz A3P, Nova III, GOTO S2
www.pictorialism.com

Dang, just when I thought I had all the books, another one pops up. Did a quick search and could find very little on this one. Tell us more about it Owen.

Posted by: Ron Walker May 10 2007, 07:48 PM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ May 10 2007, 06:35 PM) *
yeah thats it and its fine with me, i was only doing it because he had disappeared, he's putting it in online form he said so thats the way to go, i want to ask him where he found all those old articles! gare

Do you have any idea where it is on line?

Posted by: Owen Phairis May 10 2007, 08:34 PM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ May 10 2007, 07:46 PM) *
Dang, just when I thought I had all the books, another one pops up. Did a quick search and could find very little on this one. Tell us more about it Owen.

Well it is 183 pages long and has the best illustrations on the Zeiss projector that I have ever seen. Also has a nice foldout on the projector. The book starts with the historical development and then goes into an explanation of the complex astronomical motions that the Zeiss projector is capable of reproducing. It then goes into the auxillary projectors and control. The book finishes up with details on historical planetariums which house Zeiss projectors. A great book which I can not say enough about.

Owen
Spitz A1, Spitz A3P, Nova III, GOTO S2
www.pictorialism.com
Posted by: mrgare5050 May 11 2007, 03:13 AM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ May 11 2007, 02:48 AM) *
Do you have any idea where it is on line?

nah he said hes working on it.. as far as chapters, its not like a book, its more of a rolling thesis - you guys are well read on this stuff, i didnt know most of it, most interesting to me is talk of spitz's soft soap prototype

'armond spitzs original prototype was a gallon-size soft soap can perforated with hand tools in the kitchen of his Landsdown, PA home in early 1945. Grace Spitz later recalled, 'armand used a highspeed electric drill, which he purchased for about a dollar, and drilled a series of holes, some of them in his hand. '

he actually used THIS MODEL to pitch to financial backers!

owen, all this talk of illegal copies etc has spooked me, im going to forward your 20 bucks to brent, who seems reclusive, he doesnt want his email on HPA's website even, i did give it out here - ron you will remember i was hard to find at first -

the title officially is

i AM starting a list of these hard to find books so they will be in one handy place just like ken/rons list of bulbs etc.

gare
Posted by: mrgare5050 May 11 2007, 03:16 AM
oops - he took pains that the whole title is

armand neustadter spitz and his planetaria, with historical notes of the Model A at the university of florida, a thesis presented to the graduate school of the university of florida in partial fulfillment of the requirements for the dgree of master of arts, university of florida, 1994. quite a mouthful! its a true model A, the rarest of the dodecs he pointed out, under 150 produced ever!

g
Posted by: Ken Miller May 11 2007, 08:08 AM
Ron

I am still intending to get those Spitz chapter titles and summaries for you, but I am really busy and haven't had time. I will get it posted by sime time this weekend, unless somebody beats me to it.
Posted by: Ron Walker May 11 2007, 10:38 AM
QUOTE(Owen Phairis @ May 10 2007, 08:34 PM) *
Well it is 183 pages long and has the best illustrations on the Zeiss projector that I have ever seen. Also has a nice foldout on the projector. The book starts with the historical development and then goes into an explanation of the complex astronomical motions that the Zeiss projector is capable of reproducing. It then goes into the auxillary projectors and control. The book finishes up with details on historical planetariums which house Zeiss projectors. A great book which I can not say enough about.

Owen
Spitz A1, Spitz A3P, Nova III, GOTO S2
www.pictorialism.com

Sounds like almost an exact copy of the Helmut Werner book "From the Aratus Globe to the Zeiss Planetarium". I wonder how close the two really are.
Posted by: Ron Walker May 11 2007, 10:43 AM
QUOTE(Ken Miller @ May 11 2007, 08:08 AM) *
Ron

I am still intending to get those Spitz chapter titles and summaries for you, but I am really busy and haven't had time. I will get it posted by sime time this weekend, unless somebody beats me to it.

Thanks Ken, no big rush.

Posted by: Ron Walker May 11 2007, 10:48 AM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ May 11 2007, 03:13 AM) *
nah he said hes working on it.. as far as chapters, its not like a book, its more of a rolling thesis - you guys are well read on this stuff, i didnt know most of it, most interesting to me is talk of spitz's soft soap prototype

'armond spitzs original prototype was a gallon-size soft soap can perforated with hand tools in the kitchen of his Landsdown, PA home in early 1945. Grace Spitz later recalled, 'armand used a highspeed electric drill, which he purchased for about a dollar, and drilled a series of holes, some of them in his hand. '

he actually used THIS MODEL to pitch to financial backers!

owen, all this talk of illegal copies etc has spooked me, im going to forward your 20 bucks to brent, who seems reclusive, he doesnt want his email on HPA's website even, i did give it out here - ron you will remember i was hard to find at first -

the title officially is

i AM starting a list of these hard to find books so they will be in one handy place just like ken/rons list of bulbs etc.

gare

Interesting, you can't find him to buy a copy, but he doesn't want copies made. Perhaps you can invite him over to the forum where he can have a different web identity and talk with us.

Posted by: Owen Phairis May 11 2007, 12:04 PM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ May 11 2007, 10:38 AM) *
Sounds like almost an exact copy of the Helmut Werner book "From the Aratus Globe to the Zeiss Planetarium". I wonder how close the two really are.

Having both, I can tell you that, although similiar, you need to have both books. I think the German title was (is): "Das Zeiss Planetarium" which is not the same as the pamphlet published much earlier with the same title.

Owen
Spitz A1, Spitz A3P, Nova III, GOTO S2
www.pictorialism.com
Posted by: Ken Miller May 11 2007, 07:49 PM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ May 11 2007, 10:43 AM) *
Thanks Ken, no big rush.

Here is an outline of the Brent Abbatantuono Thesis on Spitz and the University of Florida Planetarium

Chapter 1: To Model the Heavens
A. Non Mechanical Planetarium Predecessors
....1) Stellar Maps
....2) Armillary Spheres
B. Mechanical Planetary Machines
....1) Orreries
....2) Pierced Star Globes
C. Notes

Chapter 2: The Zeiss Projection Planetarium
A. Simulating the Stars
....1) The Wonder of Jena (Zeiss Model I)
....2) A New Marvel (Zeiss Model II)
B. Portraying the Planets
C. Limitations of the Zeiss
D. Notes

Chapter 3: American Planetaria Before Spitz
A. Pre-Twentieth-Century Instruments (Orreries, Atwood Globe)
B. Twentieth Century Instruments
....1) Korkoz Planetaria
....2) Peerless System
....3) Morrison Planetarium
F. Notes

Chapter 4: Armand Spitz--Seller of Stars

Chapter 5: The Model A--25 Pounds of Planetarium Power
A. Origins and Prototypes
B. Model A
C. Accessories
D. Notes

Chapter 6: Other Spitz Planetaria
A. Model A1
B. Model B
C. Spitz Jr.
D. Notes

Chapter 7: University of Florida Benton Hall Planetarium
A. John Benton and Benton Hall
B. Beneath Benton's Skies
C. Restoring the Model A
D. Notes

Conclusion

Appendix A: Survey Letters and Search Questionaire

Appendix B: Work Done to the UF Model A Planetarium

Bibliography (very extensive!)

Biographical Sketch
Posted by: mrgare5050 May 12 2007, 04:59 AM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ May 11 2007, 05:48 PM) *
Interesting, you can't find him to buy a copy, but he doesn't want copies made. Perhaps you can invite him over to the forum where he can have a different web identity and talk with us.


I will do that, I sent him an issue yesterday plus owens money, he apparently isnt online as much as we are (i have my computer in the backroom of an old farmhouse, and we live in the back attached sunroom, so with the advent of cable modum im on 24 hours a day basically), but alot of people arent. alot of people arent on at all, and those are the resources I have always been trying to keep in the loop, and its hard. legends (in our obscure branch) like James Kaler, Dave Debruyn, they're home planetarium exploits are in the increasingly dim past, they bascially cant find stuff they wrote back in the 40-50s. Anyway Brent A is a historian, he doesnt necessarily build planetariums or collect them, but he's the type of wonderful resource that, since we have no restrictions basically, we can engage any way possible - i'll write more on this in the HPA topic I see ron has created (my heartfelt thanks!) - there are people out there like Brent from so many related areas that would be great to talk to, thats always been one of my passions. Here we have the textbook example!

oops i have to work today, I hate it when that happens! gare
Posted by: Ron Walker May 12 2007, 08:44 AM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ May 12 2007, 04:59 AM) *
I will do that, I sent him an issue yesterday plus owens money, he apparently isnt online as much as we are (i have my computer in the backroom of an old farmhouse, and we live in the back attached sunroom, so with the advent of cable modum im on 24 hours a day basically), but alot of people arent. alot of people arent on at all, and those are the resources I have always been trying to keep in the loop, and its hard. legends (in our obscure branch) like James Kaler, Dave Debruyn, they're home planetarium exploits are in the increasingly dim past, they bascially cant find stuff they wrote back in the 40-50s. Anyway Brent A is a historian, he doesnt necessarily build planetariums or collect them, but he's the type of wonderful resource that, since we have no restrictions basically, we can engage any way possible - i'll write more on this in the HPA topic I see ron has created (my heartfelt thanks!) - there are people out there like Brent from so many related areas that would be great to talk to, thats always been one of my passions. Here we have the textbook example!

oops i have to work today, I hate it when that happens! gare

I agree. Even if he doesn't build them, he evidently has a soft spot in his heart for planetariums. I'm also sure this is the perfect type of introduction to those surely out there that could become converts with just a little bit of a nudge. smile.gif Even though I build them (or try to anyway), I really enjoy reading any and all information I can find about them.

Posted by: mrgare5050 May 13 2007, 03:41 PM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ May 12 2007, 03:44 PM) *
I agree. Even if he doesn't build them, he evidently has a soft spot in his heart for planetariums. I'm also sure this is the perfect type of introduction to those surely out there that could become converts with just a little bit of a nudge. smile.gif Even though I build them (or try to anyway), I really enjoy reading any and all information I can find about them.


well plus, i just read this quote and now i cant think who said it, but they said, in any field, its our job today to be 'good ancestors' .. to gather up what info is available today so that those who follow will be able to see it. many of the things that need preserving are NOT gathered in one spot in this unique field - the published books even will slip out of print and into obscurity, but the stories, the things we write. they will be lost if we do not preserve them!

g
Posted by: Owen Phairis May 13 2007, 04:37 PM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ May 13 2007, 03:41 PM) *
well plus, i just read this quote and now i cant think who said it, but they said, in any field, its our job today to be 'good ancestors' .. to gather up what info is available today so that those who follow will be able to see it. many of the things that need preserving are NOT gathered in one spot in this unique field - the published books even will slip out of print and into obscurity, but the stories, the things we write. they will be lost if we do not preserve them!

g

I could not agree more!
The reason for my projector collection is to establish a Planetarium Museum.
I also have a collection of auxillary projectors and a Coperican heliocentric
projection orrery for the museum.
That is also why I also have the telescopes and meteorites.
Any word on the thesis?

Owen
Spitz A1, Spitz A3P, Nova III, GOTO S2
www.pictorialism.com
Posted by: Ron Walker May 13 2007, 05:16 PM
QUOTE(Owen Phairis @ May 13 2007, 04:37 PM) *
I could not agree more!
The reason for my projector collection is to establish a Planetarium Museum.
I also have a collection of auxillary projectors and a Coperican heliocentric
projection orrery for the museum.
That is also why I also have the telescopes and meteorites.
Any word on the thesis?

Owen
Spitz A1, Spitz A3P, Nova III, GOTO S2
www.pictorialism.com

I've got to do a trip through California and visit all of you fine folks over there. Owen, your museum sounds like a place I could spend some time in.

Posted by: mrgare5050 May 14 2007, 03:08 AM
QUOTE(Owen Phairis @ May 13 2007, 11:37 PM) *
I could not agree more!
The reason for my projector collection is to establish a Planetarium Museum.
I also have a collection of auxillary projectors and a Coperican heliocentric
projection orrery for the museum.
That is also why I also have the telescopes and meteorites.
Any word on the thesis?

Owen
Spitz A1, Spitz A3P, Nova III, GOTO S2
www.pictorialism.com

Brent was sent your money on Friday, so hopefully he will get a copy out to you this week, I also asked him about online availability, plus .. does he still have copies of that bibliography, all those exotic articles from the 40's and 50's

A planetarium museum is one of those things that hit you like ... would this be the first, at least in america? we remember the basement of Adler but i dont think it had projectors .. mr pielock certainly has a collection - i'm somewhat torn here though, between a desire for old projectors to be seen, and for old projectors to be USED and seen! Owen are you restoring them too? That is i think the great charm for engineers like Ron and Ken, and of course my bane .. it looks like though yours will be an eclectic collection of oddities, which is even cooler

Reading thru HPA old issues I found a good example of the 'ancestor' quote - in one of my shows in the 90s, on the floor of this little homemade planetarium was a girl, and she was clutching an astronomy book . she giggled along with her cohorts, they were early teens .. but this girl told me matter of factly she planned on being head of NASA one day ..

Now she was on her path already.. they say a hard road leads to the stars, but if I gave her any kind of memory - the way Owens museum will - the way Ron and Ken's and my new theater will - thats being a good ancestor. g
Posted by: Owen Phairis May 14 2007, 07:35 AM
Thanks Gary,

Yes, I agree, that bibliography would be of great interest, it would save someone a lot of work recreating and duplicating his work....

Yes, Steve has a great collection, I will need to get in touch with him for parts for some of the restoration work that needs to be done. He has been very helpful in the past.

Zeiss has a great projector museum in Jena... we will see how mine develops.

I also agree that the projectors should be used as well as seen, for me at least, much of the 'romance' of the planetarium is being lost with the advent of these new video projection systems.

Education, as with my lightning shows, is important but NOT ALL important. It is my opinion that most educational aspects of the current planetarium shows will be quickly forgotten but the inspiration of a good planetarium (or lightning) show will last a lifetime. It is also my understanding that planetarium attendance worldwide is at a new all time low, competeing with 200 million dollar movies at the local theater is a tough nut to crack... guess I should get off my soap box....

Owen
Spitz A1, Spitz A3P, Nova III, GOTO S2
www.pictorialism.com




Posted by: mrgare5050 May 14 2007, 10:14 AM


Education, as with my lightning shows, is important but NOT ALL important. It is my opinion that most educational aspects of the current planetarium shows will be quickly forgotten but the inspiration of a good planetarium (or lightning) show will last a lifetime.

we're so alike its frightening .. you think i can remember what those childhood adler trips were about? heck no! i remember the MACHINE BABY ! the horizon profile .. wheres the prudential building?? (the highest building in the 60s, ha ha) .. the GASP ..

i couldnt even see the constellations, my young brain was overloading! THATS IT! gare
Posted by: Ken Miller May 14 2007, 10:19 AM
QUOTE(Owen Phairis @ May 14 2007, 07:35 AM) *
Thanks Gary,

I also agree that the projectors should be used as well as seen, for me at least, much of the 'romance' of the planetarium is being lost with the advent of these new video projection systems.

Education, as with my lightning shows, is important but NOT ALL important. It is my opinion that most educational aspects of the current planetarium shows will be quickly forgotten but the inspiration of a good planetarium (or lightning) show will last a lifetime. It is also my understanding that planetarium attendance worldwide is at a new all time low, competeing with 200 million dollar movies at the local theater is a tough nut to crack... guess I should get off my soap box....

Owen
Spitz A1, Spitz A3P, Nova III, GOTO S2
www.pictorialism.com
No need need to get off the soap box! I am in the audience cheering wildly! My loudest cheer was when you mentioned the romance being lost. Then you totally had me when you mentioned that the "inspiration" was more important than the education. I wonder how many there were, besides the small group of us present on this forum, that were inspired to do bigger and better things as a result of seeing some of those old planetariums with the mechanical beast that made the stars.
Posted by: Ron Walker May 14 2007, 11:53 AM
QUOTE(Ken Miller @ May 14 2007, 10:19 AM) *
No need need to get off the soap box! I am in the audience cheering wildly! My loudest cheer was when you mentioned the romance being lost. Then you totally had me when you mentioned that the "inspiration" was more important than the education. I wonder how many there were, besides the small group of us present on this forum, that were inspired to do bigger and better things as a result of seeing some of those old planetariums with the mechanical beast that made the stars.

This is really quite scary. We are like "rubber stamps" of each other. That big mechanical beast was the planetarium, not the building. The gasps and awh that came from the audience when the beautiful night sky came out!

I've said it before, if you want to see a movie for entertainment sake, go to an IMAX. If you want an "experience", see a planetarium show! Perhaps some of the reason that the attendance is down is because the presentation has changed from a magical representation of the mysterious night sky to a spongebob squarepants romp through the galaxy.

This is kind of like the movie "Close Encounters of the Third Kind", a lot of us were exposed to the fantastic "inspiration" of the planetarium sky, but so few of us made the presentation connection.

Thank God I did! smile.gif

Posted by: Ron Walker Jun 3 2007, 12:01 PM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ May 8 2007, 04:25 AM) *
Anyone interested in the history of the planetarium will try I suppose to collect old books on the subject - Steven LJ Russo has posted this on Dome - L - anyone else have a copy? Ive asked Mr Russo if he can provide any images for our archives. Any other old books on the subject? gare
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Recently at a Salvation Army thrift store, I purchased an interesting book;
"From the Aratus Globe to the Zeiss Planetarium". It was written by Helmut
Werner, and published in Germany in 1953. It is written in English. I
think I paid two dollars for it!

The book details the history of the planetarium, and specifically the Zeiss
Planetarium, complete with photos of the first planetariums, orrery's, how
the planet "cages" work on the Zeiss, etc. There is even a blue/red 3D
photo of an early Zeiss on wheels (Zeiss IV maybe) and the glasses are
included.

Photos of Clyde Fisher, the old Hayden in NY, the Buhl, and the Zeiss plants
in Germany are abundant.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I remember trying to send a correction to this quote from Dome-L to Dome-L and as usual my posts tend to get lost, so I'll post it here. wink.gif The 3D picture of the Zeiss in the back of the book was an early Zeiss II, not a Zeiss IV.

Posted by: mrgare5050 Jun 20 2007, 03:08 AM

Ron, you mentioned a big file of old articles on planetariums, are any of these on 'home built' planetariums, or are they all on commercial? I'd like to list on HPA website all home built articles known to be in captivity, my earliest is from Life magazine in the 40's but they might go earlier, I only have 3 or 4 tops. gare
Posted by: Ron Walker Jun 20 2007, 05:02 PM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Jun 20 2007, 03:08 AM) *
Ron, you mentioned a big file of old articles on planetariums, are any of these on 'home built' planetariums, or are they all on commercial? I'd like to list on HPA website all home built articles known to be in captivity, my earliest is from Life magazine in the 40's but they might go earlier, I only have 3 or 4 tops. gare

Big file is perhaps a bit of an exaggeration, but I do have a decent collection that is growing every day thanks to all of you out there. I do have a few on "home planetariums" and I will send them to you. Since there are pictures associated with the articles I an going to send rather large JPEG files that should print out at your end well. The first one is on its way to you now. Tell me if you can open it and if it prints out well.

Posted by: mrgare5050 Jun 23 2007, 06:58 PM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ Jun 21 2007, 12:02 AM) *
Big file is perhaps a bit of an exaggeration, but I do have a decent collection that is growing every day thanks to all of you out there. I do have a few on "home planetariums" and I will send them to you. Since there are pictures associated with the articles I an going to send rather large JPEG files that should print out at your end well. The first one is on its way to you now. Tell me if you can open it and if it prints out well.


hey, ive been atlanta since wed, visited the fernbank natural history museum but was unable to get the family over to the science center to try to see ed albin, the director there and the guy who made those fantastic dodecs ken has -

please send to mrgare5050@hotmail.com not aim.com, aim is so slow now i caint open stuff anymore! i appreciate any homebuilt stuff ! any luck scanning any of the newsletters? gare
Posted by: Ron Walker Jun 24 2007, 12:23 PM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Jun 23 2007, 06:58 PM) *
hey, ive been atlanta since wed, visited the fernbank natural history museum but was unable to get the family over to the science center to try to see ed albin, the director there and the guy who made those fantastic dodecs ken has -

please send to mrgare5050@hotmail.com not aim.com, aim is so slow now i caint open stuff anymore! i appreciate any homebuilt stuff ! any luck scanning any of the newsletters? gare

Actually, I have all 16 issues of the newsletter scanned as PDF files so they should open on any type of computer with Adobe Acrobat which is a free download. I was waiting for a clean copy of issue 17 so I could add it on before I burned the master disc.

My family knows that if we go near a planetarium, we go in a planetarium. It's just the way it is! wink.gif


Posted by: mrgare5050 Jun 24 2007, 12:33 PM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ Jun 24 2007, 07:23 PM) *
Actually, I have all 16 issues of the newsletter scanned as PDF files so they should open on any type of computer with Adobe Acrobat which is a free download. I was waiting for a clean copy of issue 17 so I could add it on before I burned the master disc.

My family knows that if we go near a planetarium, we go in a planetarium. It's just the way it is! wink.gif


okey dokey, thats good actually, because 17 is almost all 'gulp what do i do once i built it', so it makes a logical ending point to VOL 1 or something, you should have it by weeks end and thanks so much again ron.

i just built a galaxy projector! it only took parts from an old strobe, an old band spotlight, and the bottom of a small kitchen cabinet we used to store spare keys in. good junk indeed, will get a picture over in auxiliary projectors later today! gare
Posted by: mrgare5050 Mar 14 2008, 07:17 AM
Im like Ron, i dont want to see this old threads die out. Has NOBODY found any new planetarium books (well, new old) since last JUNE

that galaxy projector i referred to has been in the supply shed for some reason, i need to get it back out. g
Posted by: mrgare5050 Mar 14 2008, 07:18 AM
and speaking of issues, after i do 19 i need help if possible adding them to the HPA cd with the first ones. i have sold a couple copies to interested parties. g
Posted by: chemed Mar 14 2008, 07:56 AM
I have quite a few back issues of IPS journals "The Planetarian", does that count?
Posted by: mrgare5050 Mar 14 2008, 08:09 AM
yes that counts indeed! im in there a couple times. mosely was an amazing man. sharon shanks is good too, though she didnt reply to my last touching base email.

stick around, weve had sort of a strange relationship with professional planetarians. strained at times, at times weve been ignored, but at other times warm indeed. g
Posted by: Ron Walker Mar 14 2008, 11:53 AM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Mar 14 2008, 07:18 AM) *
and speaking of issues, after i do 19 i need help if possible adding them to the HPA cd with the first ones. i have sold a couple copies to interested parties. g

Every time I get a new one I scan it in and burn a new master. Any time you want one. I've also added color copies of the last pages I have color for.

Posted by: Ron Walker Mar 14 2008, 11:57 AM
QUOTE(chemed @ Mar 14 2008, 07:56 AM) *
I have quite a few back issues of IPS journals "The Planetarian", does that count?

IPS just put out a set of CD's that contain copies of everything they have put out including every issue of "The Planetarian". It is a treasure trove of great information for "nuts" like us. At first I thought $75 for members was a bit steep, but now that I've had a chance to peruse the material, it will keep me occupied for some time to come.

Posted by: mrgare5050 Mar 16 2008, 03:40 AM
thanks ron for keeping adding the HPA newsletters to the master CD, i guess we can wait a few more issues. Ive got so much going on, I wanted to post this email from a gentleman named Jason Marmor in Colorado, he's interested in gathering old articles/books on home planetariums and obviously the history, I dont think I've invited him here but we need to, hes a globe man! gare, with too much to do

From: Jason.Marmor (Jason.Marmor@FHUENG.COM)
Sent: Fri 3/14/08 12:15 PM
To: gary likert (mrgare5050@hotmail.com)

Hi Gare,

Great to hear from you – I haven’t resumed work on the projector, but have been looking at buying more Ohio Art globes to “destroy,” and I’ve also been looking up articles in old Sky and Telescope magazines about homemade planetariums (planetaria?). I found several interesting articles about home planetariums in S&T issues from the late 1950s (I was also looking up info on Moonwatch satellite telescopes…). What I’d like to do is flip through every issue of S&T in order to find and copy every article there is about home planetariums. Have you already done this? If not, I’ll plan on doing it, and will send you copies of these articles. It may take me a while to get this done (unless you’ve already done it). One article I found was about Richard Emmons on Canton, Ohio, who built a rather elaborate home planetarium, and evidently was instrumental in developing a small planetarium at Kent State University. He evidently also wrote a Master’s Thesis about it. I found a biography of Mr. Emmons (an interesting character), and your name was even mentioned. I’ll bet you know all about him!

I have a question for you: do you know if Spitz toy planetarium projectors are still being made by any company? I bought one about 15-20 years ago from Ward’s Natural Science Establishment, that was an exact copy made by some other company (I forget the name). If so, do you know where I could find one to buy? I’m looking for a new one rather than a “vintage” Spitz projector, many of which are sold on Ebay

Jason Marmor

Posted by: Owen Phairis Mar 17 2008, 08:58 AM
"Theatres of Time and Space:American Planetaria, 1930- 1970"

I have finally ordered this book, I have been considering it over the past year. I was wondering if anyone out there has a copy of it and read it? Looking at the the table of contents and index it looks like there is a lot of historical, and perhaphs technical, information.

Thanks,
Owen

Posted by: Ron Walker Mar 17 2008, 10:09 AM
QUOTE(Owen Phairis @ Mar 17 2008, 08:58 AM) *
"Theatres of Time and Space:American Planetaria, 1930- 1970"

I have finally ordered this book, I have been considering it over the past year. I was wondering if anyone out there has a copy of it and read it? Looking at the the table of contents and index it looks like there is a lot of historical, and perhaphs technical, information.

Thanks,
Owen


It's worth having in the library but it is less of a technical book and more on the history of how planetary developed against the geopolitical world of that time. The types of programs for education and public entertainment, basically the cultural value of the planetarium. It makes a good balance to "Captured Stars" and/or "Geared To The Stars" and/or other more technical books.

Posted by: Ken Miller Mar 17 2008, 10:38 AM
QUOTE(Owen Phairis @ Mar 17 2008, 08:58 AM) *
"Theatres of Time and Space:American Planetaria, 1930- 1970"

I have finally ordered this book, I have been considering it over the past year. I was wondering if anyone out there has a copy of it and read it? Looking at the the table of contents and index it looks like there is a lot of historical, and perhaphs technical, information.

Thanks,
Owen
I have the book and I agree that it has some good historical information, but, like Ron says, it gives more insight into the politics and personalities of the period than into the mechanical nuts and bolts.

I need to track down the other books that Ron mentioned.
Posted by: Ken Miller Mar 17 2008, 10:52 AM
QUOTE(Ken Miller @ Mar 17 2008, 10:38 AM) *
I need to track down the other books that Ron mentioned.
Oh yes, the "Geared to the Stars" book is the one that sells for upward of $400. Some copies are going for more than $1000. That's why I don't have it.

I actually have a copy of the other book, " Captured Stars". That one is difficult to track down, but at least it doesn't cost $500 when you find a copy.
Posted by: Owen Phairis Mar 17 2008, 10:59 AM
QUOTE(Ken Miller @ Mar 17 2008, 10:52 AM) *
Oh yes, the "Geared to the Stars" book is the one that sells for upward of $400. Some copies are going for more than $1000. That's why I don't have it.

I actually have a copy of the other book, " Captured Stars". That one is difficult to track down, but at least it doesn't cost $500 when you find a copy.

I guess I will not be buying "Geared to the Stars" either. A little rich for my blood. I also have "Captured Stars" and enjoy having it, and recommend it to all interested in the Zeiss projectors. I only paid $ 38.00 for the "Theatres of Time and Space", including shipping and tax, and will look forward to reading it.

Thanks Ron and Ken,
Owen
Posted by: Ron Walker Mar 17 2008, 11:01 AM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ May 8 2007, 10:35 AM) *
In the early 60's I purchased a copy of this book at the Adler in Chicago. It had been my "bible" for information on the design and construction of all my experiments. It has been what held my interest together all these years. Since my 're-birth" or perhaps "re-infection" with the dreaded disease, I have looked to collect other books on the subject and they are few and far between. From the web, I have collected over three 3 inch binders full of articles on planetaria, but the books are the backbone of it all. I only have four and they are listed here.

"From The Aratus Globe to the Zeiss Planetarium" Revised Edition 1957
"Adler Planetarium and Astronomical Museum" 1935
"The Planetarium and Atmospherium" 1968
"The Story of the Alexander F. Morrison Planetarium" 1955

Not many, but full of great information and pictures.

Since last year I have added:

"Theaters of Time and Space" 2005
"Captured Stars" 1959
"Geared to the Stars" 1978

My binders of information containing everything from HPA issues to info on drive motors now cover a three foot shelf. Strange how things accumulate.
Posted by: Ron Walker Mar 17 2008, 11:18 AM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Mar 16 2008, 03:40 AM) *
thanks ron for keeping adding the HPA newsletters to the master CD, i guess we can wait a few more issues. Ive got so much going on, I wanted to post this email from a gentleman named Jason Marmor in Colorado, he's interested in gathering old articles/books on home planetariums and obviously the history, I dont think I've invited him here but we need to, hes a globe man! gare, with too much to do

From: Jason.Marmor (Jason.Marmor@FHUENG.COM)
Sent: Fri 3/14/08 12:15 PM
To: gary likert (mrgare5050@hotmail.com)

Hi Gare,

Great to hear from you – I haven’t resumed work on the projector, but have been looking at buying more Ohio Art globes to “destroy,” and I’ve also been looking up articles in old Sky and Telescope magazines about homemade planetariums (planetaria?). I found several interesting articles about home planetariums in S&T issues from the late 1950s (I was also looking up info on Moonwatch satellite telescopes…). What I’d like to do is flip through every issue of S&T in order to find and copy every article there is about home planetariums. Have you already done this? If not, I’ll plan on doing it, and will send you copies of these articles. It may take me a while to get this done (unless you’ve already done it). One article I found was about Richard Emmons on Canton, Ohio, who built a rather elaborate home planetarium, and evidently was instrumental in developing a small planetarium at Kent State University. He evidently also wrote a Master’s Thesis about it. I found a biography of Mr. Emmons (an interesting character), and your name was even mentioned. I’ll bet you know all about him!

I have a question for you: do you know if Spitz toy planetarium projectors are still being made by any company? I bought one about 15-20 years ago from Ward’s Natural Science Establishment, that was an exact copy made by some other company (I forget the name). If so, do you know where I could find one to buy? I’m looking for a new one rather than a “vintage” Spitz projector, many of which are sold on Ebay

Jason Marmor

Thanks Gare, I invited Jason over to join us.

Posted by: Ron Walker Mar 17 2008, 11:40 AM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ May 10 2007, 07:48 PM) *
Do you have any idea where it is on line?

Any news on this? Did it ever make it on line?
Posted by: Owen Phairis Mar 17 2008, 05:11 PM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ Mar 17 2008, 11:01 AM) *
Since last year I have added:

"Theaters of Time and Space" 2005
"Captured Stars" 1959
"Geared to the Stars" 1978

My binders of information containing everything from HPA issues to info on drive motors now cover a three foot shelf. Strange how things accumulate.

I decided today to check my book shelf and see what planetaria books I have:

"Captured Stars" 1959
"From The Aratus Globe to the Zeiss Planetarium" Revised Edition 1957
"The Planetarium and Atmospherium" 1968
"The Hayden Planetarium" 1935
"The Morrison Planetarium" 1955
"The Griffith Observatory" 1952
"The Planetarium History, Construction, Operation" 1947
"The Zeiss Planetarium" 1957
"The Development of the Planetarium in the United States" 1957
"The Planetarium Primer" 2005

Some of them are just little booklets, but fun to have....
Still looking forward to getting: "Theaters of Time and Space." What a great title!
The secret seems to be: BUY WHEN PUBLISHED- don't wait till the price skyrockets....

Owen
Planetarium Projector Museum
www.pictorialism.com


Posted by: Ken Miller Mar 18 2008, 10:17 AM
QUOTE(Ken Miller @ Mar 17 2008, 10:52 AM) *
I actually have a copy of the other book, " Captured Stars". That one is difficult to track down, but at least it doesn't cost $500 when you find a copy.
I guess I lied. I don't see that book on my bookshelf. I may have it somewhere else, but probably not. Like I said, that book is hard to find. I don't know of any copies that are available right now.
Posted by: Owen Phairis Nov 10 2008, 11:39 AM
Ken and I share an interest and fascination in SUNDIALS. This week I was able to pick up a book that I highly recommend to anyone that shares a curiosity about these wonderful instruments. The title of the book is: "SUNDIALS" by R. Newton Mayall and was published in 1938. Not only does it describe the function and mathematics on the working of sundials but also how to build them. Easy to read and very enlightening on this often overlooked scientific instrument.

Owen


Posted by: Ken Miller Nov 10 2008, 01:54 PM
QUOTE(Owen Phairis @ Nov 10 2008, 11:39 AM) *
Ken and I share an interest and fascination in SUNDIALS. This week I was able to pick up a book that I highly recommend to anyone that shares a curiosity about these wonderful instruments. The title of the book is: "SUNDIALS" by R. Newton Mayall and was published in 1938. Not only does it describe the function and mathematics on the working of sundials but also how to build them. Easy to read and very enlightening on this often overlooked scientific instrument.

Owen
I need to dig out my sundial books. As I recall, the Mayall book is a good one. The book that is really regarded as the definitive sundial book is: "Sundials: Theory and Construction", by Waugh. That book is still in print, last time I checked, and copies of it are easy to find.

I have too many interests, and I can't keep up with all of them. I'm trying to figure out a sensible way to juggle everything. The sundials will, of course, always be close to my heart. I dumped my antique television collecting hobby, and only have minor heatburn over the loss. Ditto with my model robot, and flying saucer collecting. I tried to hire a friend to complete my Tesla Coil projects, but it backfired on me, because that's all I have been doing for the last two months. I have a collection of magic tricks and books, so I recently started taking a class in performing magic. Once again I feel overwhelmed by doing that and trying to do everything else. I'm trying to figure out how to work full time while juggling seemingly endless interests and hobbies. Does anybody have any advice? Is this a mental disease? Is there a cure? Help!!!
Posted by: Owen Phairis Nov 10 2008, 04:19 PM
QUOTE(Ken Miller @ Nov 10 2008, 12:54 PM) *
I need to dig out my sundial books. As I recall, the Mayall book is a good one. The book that is really regarded as the definitive sundial book is: "Sundials: Theory and Construction", by Waugh. That book is still in print, last time I checked, and copies of it are easy to find.

I have too many interests, and I can't keep up with all of them. I'm trying to figure out a sensible way to juggle everything. The sundials will, of course, always be close to my heart. I dumped my antique television collecting hobby, and only have minor heatburn over the loss. Ditto with my model robot, and flying saucer collecting. I tried to hire a friend to complete my Tesla Coil projects, but it backfired on me, because that's all I have been doing for the last two months. I have a collection of magic tricks and books, so I recently started taking a class in performing magic. Once again I feel overwhelmed by doing that and trying to do everything else. I'm trying to figure out how to work full time while juggling seemingly endless interests and hobbies. Does anybody have any advice? Is this a mental disease? Is there a cure? Help!!!

Thanks Ken, I shall keep an eye out for the book by Waugh.

Didn't you forget to mention all the time you put in at the Miller Stardome? All those interests you mentioned are also mine. You also forgot to mention cave exploring which is what I just got back from and also planetarium visiting which I also was doing recently. I caught the show: "Extream Planets" on a Digistar III.

I have not yet gotten to the point of downsizing, which I know will be coming eventually. Perhaps I can start with my wifes' stuff first.....

Owen
Posted by: Ken Miller Nov 10 2008, 04:44 PM
QUOTE(Owen Phairis @ Nov 10 2008, 04:19 PM) *
Thanks Ken, I shall keep an eye out for the book by Waugh.

Didn't you forget to mention all the time you put in at the Miller Stardome? All those interests you mentioned are also mine. You also forgot to mention cave exploring which is what I just got back from and also planetarium visiting which I also was doing recently. I caught the show: "Extream Planets" on a Digistar III.

I have not yet gotten to the point of downsizing, which I know will be coming eventually. Perhaps I can start with my wifes' stuff first.....

Owen
Hey Owen, I have more than three dozen hobbies/interests on that list. The list also includes Ancient Egypt, Easter Island, King Arthur Mythology, Musical Instruments (few of which I can actually play), train and traffic lights/signals, slide rules/Sorobons/Abbacus, and on, and on, and on. Each interest involves associated books and paraphenalia. sometimes several boxes full. My wife has plenty of her own stuff, and she keeps saying that she's going to start clearing out her half.
Posted by: Ron Walker Nov 10 2008, 11:08 PM
QUOTE(Ken Miller @ Nov 10 2008, 01:54 PM) *
I need to dig out my sundial books. As I recall, the Mayall book is a good one. The book that is really regarded as the definitive sundial book is: "Sundials: Theory and Construction", by Waugh. That book is still in print, last time I checked, and copies of it are easy to find.

I have too many interests, and I can't keep up with all of them. I'm trying to figure out a sensible way to juggle everything. The sundials will, of course, always be close to my heart. I dumped my antique television collecting hobby, and only have minor heatburn over the loss. Ditto with my model robot, and flying saucer collecting. I tried to hire a friend to complete my Tesla Coil projects, but it backfired on me, because that's all I have been doing for the last two months. I have a collection of magic tricks and books, so I recently started taking a class in performing magic. Once again I feel overwhelmed by doing that and trying to do everything else. I'm trying to figure out how to work full time while juggling seemingly endless interests and hobbies. Does anybody have any advice? Is this a mental disease? Is there a cure? Help!!!

No cure, sorry. But think of the alternative. Would you really be happy coming home from work and plopping down in front of a TV and drinking a six pack??? unsure.gif

Be happy!!! smile.gif

Posted by: Owen Phairis Nov 11 2008, 01:09 PM
QUOTE(Ken Miller @ Nov 10 2008, 03:44 PM) *
Hey Owen, I have more than three dozen hobbies/interests on that list. The list also includes Ancient Egypt, Easter Island, King Arthur Mythology, Musical Instruments (few of which I can actually play), train and traffic lights/signals, slide rules/Sorobons/Abbacus, and on, and on, and on. Each interest involves associated books and paraphenalia. sometimes several boxes full. My wife has plenty of her own stuff, and she keeps saying that she's going to start clearing out her half.


I do not believe I have ever met anyone that shares an interest in King Arthur legends.
One book in my esoteric collection is: "The Quest of the Holy Grail" 1902 by Edwin Austin Abbey.
I value this book highly, although I have no idea of its monetary worth.

Here is a picture from the book with Sir Galahad receiving the key to the castle.

Owen



Posted by: Ken Miller Nov 11 2008, 01:49 PM
QUOTE(Owen Phairis @ Nov 11 2008, 12:09 PM) *
I
Here is a picture from the book with Sir Galahad receiving the key to the castle.

Owen

That's pretty cool Owen. Once again, you have proved that you do everything that I do, only a whole lot better. There's got to be a lot of King Arthur enthusiasts out there, but I can't say I know any except for you. I mean wizards and dragons and heroic knights, how can you not like that stuff? The interesting thing about it, like all mythology, is the deeper you dig into it to try to find the definitive legend, the more you find diverging stories from different cultures that made up the basis of the legend. It doesn't crystalize into one true story, it turns into a hodgepodge of overlapping and conflicting myths. I ran into the same thing when I tried to write a story about the lore that surrounds Mt. Shasta (see that's one more thing that you can add to my list of interests - it really, really doesn't end). Once the stories get born, they don't go away - they get stirred into the mix. I traced one story to the guy that started it as a joke, but it became sacred lore once it got launched. When I worked as a volunteer nature interpreter for the California State Park system (add another item to the list), I finally saw the light about the "true story" behind everything. There are infinite variations of the truth, but all anybody really wants to hear is a good, simple story that will pass for the truth. The really scary thing is that it applies to scientific research as well. Once something gets published, you can't erase it even when you find out that it was completely wrong. It will be cited as a basis for other "facts" from now on. Sorry, I digress too much. Back to the subject of books now.
Posted by: Owen Phairis Nov 11 2008, 03:41 PM
QUOTE(Ken Miller @ Nov 11 2008, 12:49 PM) *
That's pretty cool Owen. Once again, you have proved that you do everything that I do, only a whole lot better. There's got to be a lot of King Arthur enthusiasts out there, but I can't say I know any except for you. I mean wizards and dragons and heroic knights, how can you not like that stuff? The interesting thing about it, like all mythology, is the deeper you dig into it to try to find the definitive legend, the more you find diverging stories from different cultures that made up the basis of the legend. It doesn't crystalize into one true story, it turns into a hodgepodge of overlapping and conflicting myths. I ran into the same thing when I tried to write a story about the lore that surrounds Mt. Shasta (see that's one more thing that you can add to my list of interests - it really, really doesn't end). Once the stories get born, they don't go away - they get stirred into the mix. I traced one story to the guy that started it as a joke, but it became sacred lore once it got launched. When I worked as a volunteer nature interpreter for the California State Park system (add another item to the list), I finally saw the light about the "true story" behind everything. There are infinite variations of the truth, but all anybody really wants to hear is a good, simple story that will pass for the truth. The really scary thing is that it applies to scientific research as well. Once something gets published, you can't erase it even when you find out that it was completely wrong. It will be cited as a basis for other "facts" from now on. Sorry, I digress too much. Back to the subject of books now.

NO, not better - just different.
I am sure we have many of the same books in our collections. I pride myself on my Sherlock Holmes book collection as being one of the finest on the west coast. My collection of photography books is also one I am very proud of. The rest are mostly scientific books on optics, telescopes, physics, astronomy etc. Another thing I collect is chemical formulas, I have yet to meet anyone else that collects those....

How very fortunate we are to live in a time where such a precious resource, such as books, can be at our finger tips to have; learn from and enjoy.

Owen
Posted by: charles jones Nov 18 2008, 09:51 PM
Hi Ken

Where are you learning sleight of hand?

Charles
Posted by: Ken Miller Nov 18 2008, 10:50 PM
QUOTE(charles jones @ Nov 18 2008, 08:51 PM) *
Hi Ken

Where are you learning sleight of hand?

Charles
I'm taking a class at Fremont High Adult school in Sunnyvale. Stan Sieler is the teacher. The class was cancelled last week so at Stan's suggestion we all went over to the meeting of the Palo Alto group (Society of American Magicians?) and took part in the pre-meeting workshop.

I ran into somebody who claims to know you a few weeks ago. His name is Larry Wright, and he performs as Zappo the Magician. He was encouraging me to get more into this stuff. I'm still not sure I have any extra time to devote to this. I have way too many things to deal with already.
Posted by: Ken Miller Nov 18 2008, 11:02 PM
Owen

I dug out my copy of the Mayall book on Sundials, and it is the second edition, put out by Sky Publishing. I think the original edition went back to the 1930's. One of the editions had color plates, and I suspect that it was the Dover edition, which is the one that is currently in print. I'm wondering if it is worth getting one of the other editions.

Ken
Posted by: Owen Phairis Nov 19 2008, 11:34 AM
QUOTE(Ken Miller @ Nov 18 2008, 10:02 PM) *
Owen

I dug out my copy of the Mayall book on Sundials, and it is the second edition, put out by Sky Publishing. I think the original edition went back to the 1930's. One of the editions had color plates, and I suspect that it was the Dover edition, which is the one that is currently in print. I'm wondering if it is worth getting one of the other editions.

Ken


My copy is also the second edition, and they talk about color plates which are missing from our copies. I suspect that both the first and the Doved editions have the color plates... just our luck!

Owen
Posted by: Ken Miller Nov 19 2008, 11:50 AM
QUOTE(Owen Phairis @ Nov 19 2008, 10:34 AM) *
My copy is also the second edition, and they talk about color plates which are missing from our copies. I suspect that both the first and the Doved editions have the color plates... just our luck!

Owen
There is another book that seems to come in at number three on dialers lists of favorite books. That one is Sundials: History, Theory, and Practice, by Rene R. J. Rohr. I can't find the copy that I had, and I think that it is likely that it was the victim of one of my book purges. As I recall, it didn't seem to add much to the books I already had. It's also an odd size that doesn't fit well on the bookshelf with the other books. However, there are some people that think that it is a must have for a complete sundial library. Like the other two books that we have been talking about, it's heavy on theory and construction details. There are a couple of other books that are interesting from the aspect of history, and the art of sundials. I'll talk about those in another post. I'm strapped for time right now.
Posted by: SteveDurham Nov 19 2008, 11:51 AM
I don't know squat about sundials, I do know we don't get enough sun during the winter up here in the hinterlands.

However, I do know Bruce McClure, and he DOES know a lot about Sundials. He even holds workshops for building them.

idialstars.com/Index6.htm

He's also into planetariums and such....Maybe I ought to give him an email and an invite to join??

Have any of you run into him??

Steve
Posted by: Owen Phairis Nov 19 2008, 12:03 PM
QUOTE(SteveDurham @ Nov 19 2008, 10:51 AM) *
I don't know squat about sundials, I do know we don't get enough sun during the winter up here in the hinterlands.

However, I do know Bruce McClure, and he DOES know a lot about Sundials. He even holds workshops for building them.

idialstars.com/Index6.htm

He's also into planetariums and such....Maybe I ought to give him an email and an invite to join??

Have any of you run into him??

Steve

By all means please invite him over, anyone that likes and builds sundials and has an interest in planetariums is someone I would like to know.

Owen
Posted by: Owen Phairis Nov 19 2008, 12:06 PM
QUOTE(Ken Miller @ Nov 19 2008, 10:50 AM) *
There is another book that seems to come in at number three on dialers lists of favorite books. That one is Sundials: History, Theory, and Practice, by Rene R. J. Rohr. I can't find the copy that I had, and I think that it is likely that it was the victim of one of my book purges. As I recall, it didn't seem to add much to the books I already had. It's also an odd size that doesn't fit well on the bookshelf with the other books. However, there are some people that think that it is a must have for a complete sundial library. Like the other two books that we have been talking about, it's heavy on theory and construction details. There are a couple of other books that are interesting from the aspect of history, and the art of sundials. I'll talk about those in another post. I'm strapped for time right now.


I, personally, have less interest in their history and much more interest in their design and construction being an instrumentation specialist. I shall keep my eye open for a copy and let you you know when I find a copy.

Thanks Ken,

Owen
Posted by: Ken Miller Nov 19 2008, 12:11 PM
QUOTE(SteveDurham @ Nov 19 2008, 10:51 AM) *
I don't know squat about sundials, I do know we don't get enough sun during the winter up here in the hinterlands.

However, I do know Bruce McClure, and he DOES know a lot about Sundials. He even holds workshops for building them.

idialstars.com/Index6.htm

He's also into planetariums and such....Maybe I ought to give him an email and an invite to join??

Have any of you run into him??

Steve
I haven't run into any other dialers. I did belong to the North American Sundial Association for a while, but it was another instance of feeling that I was being drawn into a vortex that would separate me from an actual real life. Those guys are heavy on theory and math, which is fascinating, but uses too many of my brain cells to allow any left over for other interests. I love the butterfly sundial garden pictured on the website you mentioned.

It doesn't hurt to invite anybody to join this group. I wondered if there should be a directory set up for sundials, but I don't know if it would gain traction. Those guys already have their own resources and networks. Dialing as a pursuit goes back hundreds if not thousands of years.
Posted by: SteveDurham Nov 19 2008, 01:29 PM
I sent an invite...He's a fairly unique guy, intelligent, and all the other good gentlemenly things you could say about another human.

Steve
Posted by: albert Dec 15 2008, 08:08 AM
Hello planetarium fans,

since I''m from Germany I can tell you more about the German version of the Helmut Werner book. the original title has nothing to do with Zeiss: It is called

"DIE STERNE DÜRFET IHR VERSCHWENDEN"



This is a quote from Goethe's FAUST . In the prologue there is a theater director talking about opulent theatrical shows.
This means "You may waste the stars"- the theater director talks about using all the effects that are possible.

the full verse is :

Drum schonet mir an diesem Tag
Prospekte nicht und nicht Maschinen.
Gebraucht das groß, und kleine Himmelslicht,
Die Sterne dürfet ihr verschwenden;
An Wasser, Feuer, Felsenwänden,
An Tier und Vögeln fehlt es nicht.
So schreitet in dem engen Bretterhaus
Den ganzen Kreis der Schöpfung aus,
Und wandelt mit bedächt'ger Schnelle
Vom Himmel durch die Welt zur Hölle.

"on this day, don't spare prospects (scenic backgrounds) and machines
use the big and small sky light
you may waste the stars.
Let there be water, fire, rock walls,
animals and birds.
Thus put into a small wooden hut (the theater)
the whole circle of Creation.
And walk with reasonable speed
from the sky to the Earth to hell."

Sorry if this sounds like a babelfish translation but putting Goethe into English is beyond me! It might indeed be an apt description of a planetarium show...

This esoteric title is why the book does not turn up when you do a google or other search on WERNER+Zeiss....I looked in AMAZON and they still list the book at very low prices.

Albert
Posted by: Owen Phairis Dec 15 2008, 09:36 AM
QUOTE(albert @ Dec 15 2008, 07:08 AM) *
Hello planetarium fans,

since I''m from Germany I can tell you more about the German version of the Helmut Werner book. the original title has nothing to do with Zeiss: It is called

"DIE STERNE DÜRFET IHR VERSCHWENDEN"



This is a quote from Goethe's FAUST . In the prologue there is a theater director talking about opulent theatrical shows.
This means "You may waste the stars"- the theater director talks about using all the effects that are possible.

the full verse is :

Drum schonet mir an diesem Tag
Prospekte nicht und nicht Maschinen.
Gebraucht das groß, und kleine Himmelslicht,
Die Sterne dürfet ihr verschwenden;
An Wasser, Feuer, Felsenwänden,
An Tier und Vögeln fehlt es nicht.
So schreitet in dem engen Bretterhaus
Den ganzen Kreis der Schöpfung aus,
Und wandelt mit bedächt'ger Schnelle
Vom Himmel durch die Welt zur Hölle.

"on this day, don't spare prospects (scenic backgrounds) and machines
use the big and small sky light
you may waste the stars.
Let there be water, fire, rock walls,
animals and birds.
Thus put into a small wooden hut (the theater)
the whole circle of Creation.
And walk with reasonable speed
from the sky to the Earth to hell."

Sorry if this sounds like a babelfish translation but putting Goethe into English is beyond me! It might indeed be an apt description of a planetarium show...

This esoteric title is why the book does not turn up when you do a google or other search on WERNER+Zeiss....I looked in AMAZON and they still list the book at very low prices.

Albert


Sehr interessant.

Meine Frau und Ich spreche ein wenig Deutsch, abe es ist zu viele jahre.

Danken,

Owen
Posted by: Ron Walker Dec 15 2008, 10:43 AM
QUOTE(albert @ Dec 15 2008, 08:08 AM) *
Hello planetarium fans,

since I''m from Germany I can tell you more about the German version of the Helmut Werner book. the original title has nothing to do with Zeiss: It is called

"DIE STERNE DÜRFET IHR VERSCHWENDEN"
This is a quote from Goethe's FAUST . In the prologue there is a theater director talking about opulent theatrical shows.
This means "You may waste the stars"- the theater director talks about using all the effects that are possible.

the full verse is :

Drum schonet mir an diesem Tag
Prospekte nicht und nicht Maschinen.
Gebraucht das groß, und kleine Himmelslicht,
Die Sterne dürfet ihr verschwenden;
An Wasser, Feuer, Felsenwänden,
An Tier und Vögeln fehlt es nicht.
So schreitet in dem engen Bretterhaus
Den ganzen Kreis der Schöpfung aus,
Und wandelt mit bedächt'ger Schnelle
Vom Himmel durch die Welt zur Hölle.

"on this day, don't spare prospects (scenic backgrounds) and machines
use the big and small sky light
you may waste the stars.
Let there be water, fire, rock walls,
animals and birds.
Thus put into a small wooden hut (the theater)
the whole circle of Creation.
And walk with reasonable speed
from the sky to the Earth to hell."

Sorry if this sounds like a babelfish translation but putting Goethe into English is beyond me! It might indeed be an apt description of a planetarium show...

This esoteric title is why the book does not turn up when you do a google or other search on WERNER+Zeiss....I looked in AMAZON and they still list the book at very low prices.

Albert

There is a book review by Albert V. Shatzel of the Adler Planetarium from 1955 which is where I first heard of this book. He translates "DIE STERNE DÜRFET IHR VERSCHWENDEN" as "The Stars Call For Your Attention". I think I like your translation better "You may waste the stars" as I believe many are doing with these great machines.

This book was originally printed in 1953 and it is interesting to also note that there was a second issue in German in 1954 with the title "Vom Arat-Globus zum Zeiss Planetarium" but only the cover page was changed. My English copy was printed in 1957 as a "Revised and Enlarged Edition" containing 24 more pages then the original.

When you talk about "the theater director talks about using all the effects that are possible" are you talking about the pages entitled "In The Middle Of The Garden Stands A Rounded Room"? I would hate to think that anything was left out from the translation.


Posted by: albert Dec 16 2008, 03:21 AM
When you talk about "the theater director talks about using all the effects that are possible" are you talking about the pages entitled "In The Middle Of The Garden Stands A Rounded Room"? I would hate to think that anything was left out from the translation.


[/quote]

Hello Ron,

I was talking about the theater director in the Faust prologue. It is a scene declaring that everything you see in the piece is in fact acted out on a stage. There's the theater director, the Poet and Mephisto the Devil. It is a bit like the famous prologue in Shakespeares HENRY V. That is the most wonderful text ever written on a theatrical experience.

"Can this cockpit hold the vasty fields of France?
Or may we cram into this wooden O
the very casques that did affright the air at Agincourt?
...( ) On your imaginary forces work. "
----------------------------
"Suppose within the girdle of these walls
Are now confined two mighty monarchies,
Whose high upreared and abutting fronts
The perilous narrow ocean parts asunder:
Piece out our imperfections with your thoughts;
Into a thousand parts divide one man,
And make imaginary puissance;
Think when we talk of horses, that you see them
Printing their proud hoofs i' the receiving earth;
For 'tis your thoughts that now must deck our kings,
Carry them here and there; jumping o'er times,
Turning the accomplishment of many years
Into an hour-glass: for the which supply,
Admit me Chorus to this history;
Who prologue-like your humble patience pray,
Gently to hear, kindly to judge, our play."




Since I am a theater director myself, this is very close to me.

I also happen to think that a planetarium director should not only be a scientist but also a theater person.
I will never forget the shivers that ran down my spine at the end of the old planetarium show in Munich when they played the final bars of Stravinsky's "Firebird" as a meteor shower came on and the house lights slowly came up in sync with the music. Do the same with pop music and the whole thing falls flat on its face. Some kind of magic should be present. People seem to be almost afraid of that these days.


Albert
Posted by: mrgare5050 Dec 16 2008, 05:32 AM
Ah yes Albert, weve spoken of the Globe theater - open air, under the stars! Its an unofficial nickname mine has after my father in law named it. gare
Posted by: Ron Walker Dec 16 2008, 11:55 AM
QUOTE(albert @ Dec 16 2008, 03:21 AM) *
I also happen to think that a planetarium director should not only be a scientist but also a theater person.
I will never forget the shivers that ran down my spine at the end of the old planetarium show in Munich when they played the final bars of Stravinsky's "Firebird" as a meteor shower came on and the house lights slowly came up in sync with the music. Do the same with pop music and the whole thing falls flat on its face. Some kind of magic should be present. People seem to be almost afraid of that these days.
Albert

You are "dead on" as far as I'm concerned. That is something that I'll need to try if I ever get my place built. A planetarium is a magical place indeed and the magic is easy to create. Why are presenters afraid of it? Do they think it is too scary for people?

"The plays the thing!"

Posted by: Owen Phairis Dec 16 2008, 01:40 PM
QUOTE(albert @ Dec 16 2008, 02:21 AM) *
When you talk about "the theater director talks about using all the effects that are possible" are you talking about the pages entitled "In The Middle Of The Garden Stands A Rounded Room"? I would hate to think that anything was left out from the translation.




Hello Ron,

I was talking about the theater director in the Faust prologue. It is a scene declaring that everything you see in the piece is in fact acted out on a stage. There's the theater director, the Poet and Mephisto the Devil. It is a bit like the famous prologue in Shakespeares HENRY V. That is the most wonderful text ever written on a theatrical experience.

"Can this cockpit hold the vasty fields of France?
Or may we cram into this wooden O
the very casques that did affright the air at Agincourt?
...( ) On your imaginary forces work. "
----------------------------
"Suppose within the girdle of these walls
Are now confined two mighty monarchies,
Whose high upreared and abutting fronts
The perilous narrow ocean parts asunder:
Piece out our imperfections with your thoughts;
Into a thousand parts divide one man,
And make imaginary puissance;
Think when we talk of horses, that you see them
Printing their proud hoofs i' the receiving earth;
For 'tis your thoughts that now must deck our kings,
Carry them here and there; jumping o'er times,
Turning the accomplishment of many years
Into an hour-glass: for the which supply,
Admit me Chorus to this history;
Who prologue-like your humble patience pray,
Gently to hear, kindly to judge, our play."




Since I am a theater director myself, this is very close to me.

I also happen to think that a planetarium director should not only be a scientist but also a theater person.
I will never forget the shivers that ran down my spine at the end of the old planetarium show in Munich when they played the final bars of Stravinsky's "Firebird" as a meteor shower came on and the house lights slowly came up in sync with the music. Do the same with pop music and the whole thing falls flat on its face. Some kind of magic should be present. People seem to be almost afraid of that these days.


Albert


Hi Albert,

Yes, I agree with you and Ron, theater is such an important part of the planetarium presentation and it is missing in a lot of the new digital shows.

I also agree, and feel strongly, that classical music is the best suited music for planetarium skies. This is where there is some disagreement here on this forum, some believe that pop music belongs in the planetarium and fits right in.

Owen
Posted by: albert Dec 22 2008, 05:50 AM
Hello-

the book by Mr.. Fox on the Adler planetarium can be found here:

adlerplanetarium.tripod.com/#fox

It has a really good part on the old Zeiss II projector and its workings. Pages 10 to 26 are those of interest to us.

Albert
Posted by: mrgare5050 Dec 22 2008, 07:28 AM
hey albert and all, somebody (here?) sent me a copy of what i think is an original of this phamplet or book, i just quoted from it in my newsletter because they did play classical music at adlers opening .. my copy is falling apart ! this is a reprint from popular astro mag though, so it may not be the original


Posted by: albert Feb 28 2009, 09:36 AM
Hello friends,

browsing thru the bookshop of the Deutsches Museum in Munich a couple weeks ago, I came onto a book I have never seen before. It is called "Der Himmel auf Erden" ("Heavens on Earth") and details the history of the planetarium beginning with the mechanical orrery and ending with video fulldome projection. It was written by a Dr Ludwig Meier who must have been intimately involved with the east German Zeiss branch. LOTS of interesting stuff in there, in German but the images are worth the price. I hope nobody will mind if I put some of these pics here as an appetizer....here is the envelope.


Posted by: albert Feb 28 2009, 09:38 AM
The really interesting thing about this book is that it includes some of the later development of Zeiss Jena machines, the fiber optic projector as well as the digitally controlled planet projectors. Here is an image of a fiber optic system. Imagine threading 10.000 optical fibers thru a star plate. This was or is all done by hand...

Posted by: albert Feb 28 2009, 09:41 AM
The book also shows a digital planet projector. This looks very similar to a scanner or searchlight as they are being used on the stage. The computer calculates the planet position in real time and runs the stepper motors of the device accordingly. Could not somebdy modify an existing program such as Stellarium to get the planet positions out? this way one could easily make such a planet projector.

Posted by: albert Feb 28 2009, 09:44 AM
One of the more interesting images shows the interior of a star ball. The real point of interest here is the small specks of black paint that seem to be on the star plates or the condensers. These cover up alignment marks on the star plates by which they are aligned once the projectors are assembled. It seems that on some of the later generation projectors these spots of paint came off when the lamp was changed to a bigger one. And all of a sudden these fat white marks appeared between the stars....


Posted by: Owen Phairis Feb 28 2009, 09:47 AM
QUOTE(albert @ Feb 28 2009, 08:38 AM) *
The really interesting thing about this book is that it includes some of the later development of Zeiss Jena machines, the fiber optic projector as well as the digitally controlled planet projectors. Here is an image of a fiber optic system. Imagine threading 10.000 optical fibers thru a star plate. This was or is all done by hand...



Thanks Albert!

I find it all very interesting and will start looking for a copy of the book.
I really like the fiber optic plate.

Owen -
Posted by: albert Feb 28 2009, 09:49 AM
There also is a drawing that sheds some light on the functioning of the gears on the ZKP 2. As you might know this machine has no planet cages but a series of plates that turn around a central mounting tube. The gear and the arm controlling the planet projector therefore cannot pass thru the center. "Differential-epicyclic gear" is the word used to describe the system.


Getting rid of the heavy planet cages obviates the need to use double projectors. The movements are reduced to circular orbits, the excentricity of the planets orbits is not taken into account in this system. But it is extremely elegant.

Posted by: albert Feb 28 2009, 09:53 AM
The book also has a section on star plates. It seems the first plates for the 1920s machines were really made by hand by a family of father and son in Jena. under the microscope they punched small holes into a copper foil using 64 different tool sizes. Work for a real masochist or someone incredibly dedicated. It seems they made 15 000 copper star plates this way over the years.... hats off to that. Here is a drawing of a star plate indicating the size of the tools to be used. Look at the alignment marks and the projector number on the top of the drawing.


I only hope nobody is going to wring my neck for putting up these images...I hope it is considered a big "plug" for the book. It is from 1992 and should be available thru one of the big retailers.
Posted by: albert Feb 28 2009, 09:59 AM
The historical part also has a nice drawing of the famous Gottorp globe. I have never seen this one before. Imagine sitting at that table and have a servant rotate the globe on a squeaky axis while another one holds a candle to the holes in the globe. Real Planetarium feeling in the 18th century!


Posted by: Ron Walker Feb 28 2009, 12:50 PM
QUOTE(albert @ Feb 28 2009, 09:49 AM) *
There also is a drawing that sheds some light on the functioning of the gears on the ZKP 2. As you might know this machine has no planet cages but a series of plates that turn around a central mounting tube. The gear and the arm controlling the planet projector therefore cannot pass thru the center. "Differential-epicyclic gear" is the word used to describe the system.


Getting rid of the heavy planet cages obviates the need to use double projectors. The movements are reduced to circular orbits, the excentricity of the planets orbits is not taken into account in this system. But it is extremely elegant.


This stuff is great Albert! I have never seen a close up of this particular projector before and have always wondered how it worked. Looks to have a bit of the Spitz A3P layout only driving projectors directly and not mirrors.

I wonder if it will/has been translated as my German is nonexistent.
Posted by: Ron Walker Feb 28 2009, 01:03 PM
QUOTE(albert @ Feb 28 2009, 09:53 AM) *
The book also has a section on star plates. It seems the first plates for the 1920s machines were really made by hand by a family of father and son in Jena. under the microscope they punched small holes into a copper foil using 64 different tool sizes. Work for a real masochist or someone incredibly dedicated. It seems they made 15 000 copper star plates this way over the years.... hats off to that. Here is a drawing of a star plate indicating the size of the tools to be used. Look at the alignment marks and the projector number on the top of the drawing.


I only hope nobody is going to wring my neck for putting up these images...I hope it is considered a big "plug" for the book. It is from 1992 and should be available thru one of the big retailers.

I wouldn't worry. Parts of any copyrighted or published work can be copied and disseminated for review or educational purposes. Also, as you say, it will probably generate sales for them. I know I'd love a copy as it covers a lot of material that has not been covered before.

Posted by: charle Mar 1 2009, 01:32 PM
Great book. Some web search results:

A used copy available at amazon.com: $286.26
A used copy in Germany on amazon.de: 123 EURO

So, whatever you paid, you got a great deal.
While searching, I found and interesting set of slides
from Carl Zeiss that shows their current planetarium
products (April 2008) at the site:
149.222.20.63/fileadmin/data/mediendom/ADP2008/Zeiss_ADP2008.pdf
Some interesting pictures.

Charle'
Posted by: charles jones Jun 10 2009, 04:38 PM
"Zeiss Planetarium" by Charles Hagar, Griffith Observatory, circa late 1940's - early 50's

I was fortunate, through correspondence with Griffith Observatory, to get a xerox reproduction of “Zeiss Planetarium” by Charles Hagar published by Griffith. It is similar to the Fox “Adler Planetarium” booklet. However, in some ways it gives a clearer description of the early Zeiss Mark II engineering details. I was looking for an explanation of how the three annual motion motors connected through three differentials and how these differentials actually work using spur gears instead of the usual bevel gears.

Such an amazing machine, I was reminded that Precessional motion was actually connected to Annual motion which is directly connected to Daily motion. I guess I knew this before and had to be reminded. Can you imagine making the projector so accurate that a daily rotation of the earth affects an infinitesimal movement of Precessional motion as well! I find this amazing!

I really wonder if the backlash in the long gear train would make this null?

I assume that a planetarium director, wishing to show the sky two centuries back, would have run annual motion backwards which also turned Precessional motion backwards. In two centuries you might notice the difference of the position of the north star compared to the pole.

Curious if the planetarium operators actually did run the annual motion backwards for two centuries and how long that would have taken?
Posted by: Owen Phairis Jun 11 2009, 07:58 AM
QUOTE(charles jones @ Jun 10 2009, 04:38 PM) *
"Zeiss Planetarium" by Charles Hagar, Griffith Observatory, circa late 1940's - early 50's

I was fortunate, through correspondence with Griffith Observatory, to get a xerox reproduction of "Zeiss Planetarium" by Charles Hagar published by Griffith. It is similar to the Fox "Adler Planetarium" booklet. However, in some ways it gives a clearer description of the early Zeiss Mark II engineering details. I was looking for an explanation of how the three annual motion motors connected through three differentials and how these differentials actually work using spur gears instead of the usual bevel gears.

Such an amazing machine, I was reminded that Precessional motion was actually connected to Annual motion which is directly connected to Daily motion. I guess I knew this before and had to be reminded. Can you imagine making the projector so accurate that a daily rotation of the earth affects an infinitesimal movement of Precessional motion as well! I find this amazing!

I really wonder if the backlash in the long gear train would make this null?

I assume that a planetarium director, wishing to show the sky two centuries back, would have run annual motion backwards which also turned Precessional motion backwards. In two centuries you might notice the difference of the position of the north star compared to the pole.

Curious if the planetarium operators actually did run the annual motion backwards for two centuries and how long that would have taken?


Hi Charles,

I have an original copy of that pamphlet by Hagar, mine was published post 1957.

To answer some of your questions:

24 hours may be compressed to 10.5 minutes, 3.5 minutes or 1 minute.
A year may be compressed to 3 minutes, 1 minute or 5 seconds.
25,800 precession years can be compressed to 1.25 minutes.

It would take 188 real years to go 1 full precessional cycle at the daily rate, which means all the gears and ball bearings would have gone bad before it was accomplished. So approximately 14.5 real years to go 2,000 planetarium years using daily motion, if my math is correct....

All of my data came from: The Planetarium - History, Construction and Operation by Roy K. Marshall and The Fels Planetarium of the Franklin Institute, Philadelphia Pa. published in 1947.

Guess this is why we now use computers...

Owen -

PS Please disregard this post if the question was retorical......
Posted by: albert Jun 26 2009, 01:35 AM
M. Lhoumeau has kindly sent me a scan of a little booklet written by Walther Villiger, the director of the astronomy department at Zeiss, in the late Twenties.
Villiger was the driving force behind the construction of the model II machine. He is mentioned in the crucial Zeiss patents as co-inventor with Bauersfeld. He has written extensively on the subject, but mostly articles in specialized reviews.
The book is in French, and what was interesting to me is that many of the illustrations in it were used and re-used again by the other German authors writing on the subject much later.

Now take a closer look at the projector here. It is probably the very first prototype machine of the Model 2. The horizon cutoffs seem to be different, the mercury-filled tubes that give the Model 2 such a distinctive appearance are not here. In the text they talk about a mercury shutter....so that was probably different in the beginning. Maybe they used mercury in a small glass flask as a shutter much as in the milky way projector later on.
Then there are 17 small stick like projectors for nebulae. So these were NOT on the star plates at the beginning!
And the Milky way projector is HUGE here.
Interesting details!
Posted by: albert Jun 26 2009, 01:44 AM
There is not much new in the text of the book, but Villiger and others have always mentioned that the completed Model II surprised even it's makers by it's amazing versatility. They experimented with the various gears and combinations and discovered the "eternal day" and "eternal night" modes, showing the sun on the meridian during annual motion by running the annual and diurnal moves against each other.
Many of the features of the model II were developed during the initial run of the model I on the famous rooftop dome in Jena. The makers of the instrument listened attentively to the suggestions from the people who ran the show and it seems they also had a lot of feedback from the spectators.

The interest of the booklet is that you can look into the minds of the creators of the machine when this whole planetarium field was still brand new.



I like the graphics of the period...highly dramatic, although the guy put in for scale looks like he is in a wheelchair because he is behind the big wheel of the machine's base.

I am fairly sure the same book also exists in English. Any copies out ?
Posted by: albert Jun 26 2009, 01:53 AM
Just for fun, here is an ad on the back of the book for Zeiss PUNKTAL eyeglasses. Interestingly, on the bottom of the page you see a "pince-nez" type of glasses that were just clamped onto the nose and stuck there by sheer luck....the rage in the Twenties.
The gag here is that the ad goes something like "You can check your eyesight by going to see a show in the Zeiss planetarium. The projected star images are razor sharp on the dome, so if you see fuzzy dots surrounded by an aureole, you better run and see your ophtalmologist at once!"
If Spitz with his pinholes had put out an ad like this, he would have caused a mad rush to the doctors.... wink.gif just to irk you Spitz fans out there!

Posted by: Owen Phairis Sep 10 2009, 07:54 AM
QUOTE(albert @ Jun 26 2009, 01:35 AM) *
M. Lhoumeau has kindly sent me a scan of a little booklet written by Walther Villiger, the director of the astronomy department at Zeiss, in the late Twenties.
Villiger was the driving force behind the construction of the model II machine. He is mentioned in the crucial Zeiss patents as co-inventor with Bauersfeld. He has written extensively on the subject, but mostly articles in specialized reviews.
The book is in French, and what was interesting to me is that many of the illustrations in it were used and re-used again by the other German authors writing on the subject much later.

Now take a closer look at the projector here. It is probably the very first prototype machine of the Model 2. The horizon cutoffs seem to be different, the mercury-filled tubes that give the Model 2 such a distinctive appearance are not here. In the text they talk about a mercury shutter....so that was probably different in the beginning. Maybe they used mercury in a small glass flask as a shutter much as in the milky way projector later on.
Then there are 17 small stick like projectors for nebulae. So these were NOT on the star plates at the beginning!
And the Milky way projector is HUGE here.
Interesting details!

The Museum is getting a copy of this booklet, Das Zeiss Planetarium, in German.
It comes complements of a new friend of the Museum, Lucas Orve from Sweeden!
Lucas is also working on a home planetarium.

Owen -

Note the miss alignment of the brown ink.


Correctly printed english version which the Museum does not have, or the French version, wonder how many translations are out there?

Posted by: Charlie Miller Sep 14 2009, 05:03 PM
Hi folks. This is "sort of" on topic, sort of not. But I just ordered this book in my futile effort
to turn my girly-girl 7-yr-old daughter into someone who'd appreciate how a steam engine or
"other" devices work. You can also get some really boring films (on DVD) about planetaria from ebay
(don't bite on the california science academy one... it's, well, terrible!)



Posted by: Owen Phairis Sep 18 2009, 07:58 AM
QUOTE(Owen Phairis @ Sep 10 2009, 07:54 AM) *
The Museum is getting a copy of this booklet, Das Zeiss Planetarium, in German.
It comes complements of a new friend of the Museum, Lucas Orve from Sweeden!
Lucas is also working on a home planetarium.

Owen -

Note the miss alignment of the brown ink.


Correctly printed english version which the Museum does not have, or the French version, wonder how many translations are out there?



I received the booklet yesterday from Sweeden. Many of the illustrations had been used in other publications, others had not. I now need to brush up on meine Deutsch....
Posted by: pielock373 Jan 12 2010, 05:03 PM
Hi All

Here is my photo list of my favorite books on planetariums. The most treasured book in my collection is "Geared to the stars". I have loaned it out to a friend doing research on the subject. When I get it back I wil post some pictures of it. Next favorite to that book is my signed copy of Richard Emmons' Master Thesis as well as Brent Abbatantuono's. Enjoy the pictures. Some of the weirder stuff I have (Not pictured) are sales liturature and Operator's manuals for just about all planetarium Makes and models...






Posted by: mrgare5050 Jan 12 2010, 05:32 PM
Wow I love that Pinpoint book, whered that come from Steve? Excellent collection! I got into trouble with Brent a couple years ago by sending copies of his work without his permission, oops! Where'd you run into Emmons? gare
Posted by: pielock373 Jan 12 2010, 06:33 PM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Jan 12 2010, 07:32 PM) *
Wow I love that Pinpoint book, whered that come from Steve? Excellent collection! I got into trouble with Brent a couple years ago by sending copies of his work without his permission, oops! Where'd you run into Emmons? gare

Sorry about the blurry photo's, my camera is a cheepy! Armand's wife Grace gave me this copy of the book when I interviewed her in 1994. Richard and I became quite close near the end of his life. He even drilled me a 10 inch star ball, what a great guy he was! About 10 years before his death he received a pig's valve replacement, he loved to talk about it for some reason. He later passed away with Cancer. His daughter emailed me of his passing, a very sad day indeed! She is still active in the planetarium field, I finally met her at the GLPA conference 4 years ago. She had found some of my letters to him and knew I was going to be at the conference, She found my table and we talked for hours about her dad and the planetarium field. Sadly she had also lost her husband that year as well. Real sweet lady, just like her Dad...
Posted by: mrgare5050 Jan 12 2010, 07:10 PM
I was hearing from Jeanne Bishop until recently, I hope she's OK - I also got to meet her and her Dad at a GLPA event in 96, hes the father of home planetaria as far as HPA is concerned! Tom her brother has also written - the Emmons ball you got, was it done after the line of TSA balls he did for his projectors I wonder? Just trying to keep up on family history. g-a
Posted by: pielock373 Jan 12 2010, 07:19 PM
He made the ball about the same time you were putting out the early version of the HPA newsletter, maybe 96-97? Last time I spoke to her she was very sad, I to hope she is OK?!!

Steve
Posted by: mrgare5050 Jan 13 2010, 04:19 AM


Mr. Emmons went on to construct 17 small planetarium projectors, sold as "TSA Planetarium Projectors" to institutions in Ohio, New York, Illinois, Maine, Tennessee, Texas, Minnesota, Kansas, Iowa, and even one in England. Mr. Emmons' son Tom, who recently retired from the Kent State University Physics Department, participated in the production of these projectors. One projector, sold to Gary Likert of Gallatin, Tennessee, led to the establishment of the Home Planetarium Association.

Im looking for a picture of the TSA projector (i had one but lost it), wonder where they all are? Did you get that 'new england' one? g
Posted by: mrgare5050 Jan 13 2010, 04:19 AM
Is Geared to the Stars supposedly the best planetarium book ever published? g
Posted by: pielock373 Jan 13 2010, 04:37 AM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Jan 13 2010, 06:19 AM) *
Is Geared to the Stars supposedly the best planetarium book ever published? g

Yes, I believe so. It goes through the history of the Orrery, not only showing pictures of them but diagram drawing of their gear trains as well. Then it talks about the two great spear planetariums and a very nice history of many of the optical mechanical projectors of the 1900's up until the early 1960's. It briefly covers the Nova and Viewlex but not much info at all on them. These two companies where just starting up about the time this book was being published. I should be getting it back this week from my friend, I'll post a couple pictures when I get it.

Steve
Posted by: Ron Walker Feb 4 2010, 01:29 PM
I can't find where we talked about these recordings but I didn't realize (or remember) that a fifth one was made. Does anyone have any idea if a copy of this exists?


Posted by: Owen Phairis Feb 17 2010, 12:40 PM
I noticed on ebay that there is a copy of "From the Aratus Globe to the Zeiss Planetarium."
Opening bid is only $ 12.99 and I believe it is a very good book to have in ones collection.
Looks like it comes with the 3-D glasses too.

Owen -




Posted by: mrgare5050 May 30 2011, 04:38 AM

Heres a gem I found at McKays, a large used bookstore carefully hidden outside Nashville, its a whole book on naked eye astronomy with a chapter advocating the painting of a night sky on the ceiling!




Posted by: Ken Miller May 30 2011, 06:34 AM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ May 30 2011, 04:38 AM) *
Heres a gem I found at McKays, a large used bookstore carefully hidden outside Nashville, its a whole book on naked eye astronomy with a chapter advocating the painting of a night sky on the ceiling!



As a matter of fact, I have a glow-in-the-dark night sky painted on my bedroom ceiling. I did that 20 years ago, before I acquired any actual projectors. That sky still shines every night, and still makes me feel good every time I see it. My wife tells everybody that it was what made her decide I was the right guy.
Posted by: Lucas Aug 25 2015, 12:11 PM
I have a copy of "Captured Stars" by Heinz Letsch from 1959. In my opinion, it's the best account of the early Zeiss Model II/III projectors available.



I posted the foldout of the projector with explanations here: www.observatorycentral.com/index.php?showtopic=12983, which gives you a feel about the content.

The way I understand the story is that the Zeiss company kept updating and modernising the original book "Das Zeiss Planetarium" from the late 20's and on (with different authors at the helm). So one vintage can be very different from another, especially if far apart in time (and yet, you can "feel" that it follows the same concept, and some pictures are also re-used)

They were published in several languages, and as we can see above, this included German (of course), French and English, but recently I have also found one in Italian (currently available on ebay at outrageous EUR 136.04: www.ebay.de/itm/IL-PLANETARIO-ZEISS-ASTRONOMIA-RARO-HOEPLI-ORIGINALE-/301718115474?hash=item463fcd1492, or bargain EUR 12.00: www.ebay.de/itm/Villiger-W-Il-planetario-Zeiss-/281473150638?hash=item41891b6eae, have your pick!) . Most probably, not all versions were translated into all languages.



It also seems that the translated versions were normally called "Das Zeiss Planetarium" in the respective language (Le Planetaire Zeiss, The Zeiss Planetarium, I Planetario Zeiss, ....), the exception being "Captured Stars" (which exists in a German version under the traditional "Das Zeiss Planetarium). I also think that "Captured Stars" was a fairly late translation of an earlier version in German (so perhaps not quite reflecting the actual status of the technology 1959).

Anyway, the "Captured Stars" is a great book by all accounts, with plenty of information for anyone interested in planetariums (especially Zeiss II/III).
Posted by: Ron Walker Aug 25 2015, 06:00 PM
That is indeed an extremely good book. It is written from the East German perspective of the time and is well worth comparing it to the West German book "From the Aratus Globe to the Zeiss Planetarium". Both are very good and well worth getting if you can find them. There are a few contradictions that pop up but are very minor. One that I've always wondered about is the original wattage of the lamp in the star globe of the original Zeiss I projector. Some sources say 500 Watts and others say 200 Watts. Things appear to support the 200 Watt design but the dome on the Zeiss factory was fairly large. Perhaps they used a 500 Watt lamp for that venue and then used a 200 Watt one when installed in the museum. What I found really interesting in the design change from the one to the two was other then a larger 1000 Watt lamp they made the star globes larger (to handle the added heat I would imagine). What is really interesting is that the projectors themselves are basically in exactly the same place. In the model I the globe supports the projectors at the condenser end as the projectors are outside the star ball while the model II supports them at the lens end and the projectors are entirely inside the star ball itself. All in all a most beautifully designed machine for sure.
Posted by: Ron Walker Jul 13 2018, 04:08 PM
Was told about and just picked up a new book about planetariums copyright 2017. Called "Star Theater -The Story of the Planetarium" by William Firebrace. I got a copy not to learn how these machines worked but just to have it in my library. To my surprise it was a great read and had many pictures I had not seen before. While I have just skimmed it so far, a definition of a planetarium lecturer is a person, "Part scientist, part priest, part shaman and part theater director". Things like this make the book delicious fun. The book even touches on Frank Kovac's hand built planetarium.



Posted by: moonmagic Jul 15 2018, 04:47 PM
RW- Your post today led me to do a "Gare-Thing" that is GO BACK and RE-READ past posts, in this case about books on planetariums. I hope to locate some of those books not in my collections. mm
Posted by: mrgare5050 Jul 15 2018, 05:21 PM
QUOTE(moonmagic @ Jul 15 2018, 11:47 PM) *
RW- Your post today led me to do a "Gare-Thing" that is GO BACK and RE-READ past posts, in this case about books on planetariums. I hope to locate some of those books not in my collections. mm

in my case I may be reading them for the first time MM... OC is like a 500 room mansion - you can wander into a room and vaguely try to read the dusty footprints ... was I in here, like in 2009?

RW .. did you pay 40? didnt see it on amazon saw it here

press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/distributed/S/bo27432315.html
Posted by: Ron Walker Jul 16 2018, 09:26 AM
No, $40 would be a real luxury. Katie did some research and found a like new used copy for $20.
Posted by: charles jones Oct 30 2018, 06:01 PM
I acquired two copies (one by mistake) of STAR THEATRE by William Firebrace (2017).
The second copy is yours for the asking. Let me know.
Charles Jones

Posted by: Ron Walker Oct 30 2018, 07:33 PM
QUOTE(charles jones @ Oct 30 2018, 06:01 PM) *
I acquired two copies (one by mistake) of STAR THEATRE by William Firebrace (2017).
The second copy is yours for the asking. Let me know.
Charles Jones

Where were you in July???

Well worth the read.

Posted by: charles jones Oct 31 2018, 01:42 PM
Again, if anyone wants a free copy, let me know

Charles
Posted by: mrgare5050 Oct 31 2018, 02:03 PM
QUOTE(charles jones @ Oct 31 2018, 08:42 PM) *
Again, if anyone wants a free copy, let me know

Charles


i do i do! do you need money for shipping? 1203 Highway 25, Gallatin TN 37066.
Posted by: charles jones Nov 1 2018, 12:01 AM
I will mail it out tomorrow Gare.

Charles

Posted by: mrgare5050 Nov 1 2018, 06:03 AM
QUOTE(charles jones @ Nov 1 2018, 07:01 AM) *
I will mail it out tomorrow Gare.

Charles


thank you so much Charles!
Posted by: Ron Walker Feb 11 2021, 10:30 AM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Nov 1 2018, 06:03 AM) *
thank you so much Charles!

Did you ever read this book and what did you think?
Posted by: mrgare5050 Feb 11 2021, 11:03 AM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ Feb 11 2021, 05:30 PM) *
Did you ever read this book and what did you think?


ive read parts of it. i loved the part where the London Planetarium began bringing over wax dummies from Madam Toussads next door! that was one of the genesis for the pseudo-peeps
Posted by: Ron Walker Feb 11 2021, 11:44 AM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Feb 11 2021, 11:03 AM) *
ive read parts of it. i loved the part where the London Planetarium began bringing over wax dummies from Madam Toussads next door! that was one of the genesis for the pseudo-peeps

I found it interesting that I read somewhere that they were only giving 15 minute shows. It takes me that long to get to total night to start a program.
Posted by: Scott T Feb 11 2021, 11:56 AM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Feb 11 2021, 06:03 PM) *
ive read parts of it. i loved the part where the London Planetarium began bringing over wax dummies from Madam Toussads next door! that was one of the genesis for the pseudo-peeps

Pseudo peeps aka the fraudience laugh.gif
Posted by: Ron Walker Feb 11 2021, 12:10 PM
QUOTE(Scott T @ Feb 11 2021, 11:56 AM) *
Pseudo peeps aka the fraudience laugh.gif

They were bringing over wax figures and the best we can do is cardboard cutouts.
Posted by: mrgare5050 Feb 11 2021, 12:26 PM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ Feb 11 2021, 07:10 PM) *
They were bringing over wax figures and the best we can do is cardboard cutouts.


im on the budget plan
Posted by: Ron Walker Feb 11 2021, 02:07 PM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Feb 11 2021, 12:26 PM) *
im on the budget plan

I wasn't ragging on you, I was thinking about the NFL and the NBA. But I guess your guilty of it as well.
Posted by: Ron Walker Feb 11 2021, 02:08 PM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ Feb 11 2021, 02:07 PM) *
I wasn't ragging on you, I was thinking about the NFL and the NBA. But I guess your guilty of it as well.

Actually it would be interesting to use the cutout as a screen and then project video of different people onto it.
Posted by: Ron Walker Mar 18 2021, 02:23 PM
Another new book.

Hi *!* Let me please introduce you the book
"PLANETARIA"
This book pays tribute to three individuals, Frank Kovac, Owen Phairis and Gary Likert with whom I met and share an obsession for these fascinating instruments from before the digital revolution.
With texts (in english and french) from Céline Flécheux, Vincent Lloyd & Richard H. Emmons.
Frank Kovac spent ten years building a planetarium in his back yard in the North Woods of Wisconsin. His one-of-a-kind creation is a mechanical wooden sphere measuring 23 feet in diameter and inspired by such proto planetariums as the Globe of Gottorf and the Atwood Sphere. Inside, he has reproduced in glow-in-the-dark paint all the stars visible to the naked eye in the northern hemisphere, numbering just over two thousand. An unforgettable experience awaits the viewer who makes the long trip out to this planetarium in the woods. The way in which Frank depicts the heavens using limited technology is paradoxical and spectacular, a breathtaking creation: the Kovac Planetarium.
Owen Phairis holds the Solar System’s largest collection of planetarium projectors at Big Bear Lake in California. In the shed where he stores his machines, there is a 136 lb. meteorite, a historical overview of the evolution of planetariums, and potentially hundreds of thousands of stars. Above the floor to ceiling display of astronomy- related objects, simultaneous projections make for an unusual stargazing experience at the Planetarium Projector and Science Museum.
I must also add that not far from his museum is a second shed housing some thirty replicas of Nikola Tesla inventions. Here Owen has created a show in honor of the genius inventor, in which he himself portrays Tesla amid arcs of electricity.
Gary Likert, founder of The Home Planetarium Association, collects and archives artisanal projectors. His collection and planetarium are housed in a century-old barn in Gallatin, Tennessee. Surrounded by odd do-it-yourself projects, sculptures, and other automated curiosities, he discusses the pioneers in the field, such as Richard Emmons and Steven Smith, whose prototypes he preserves. A word of caution to visitors, however: the space has a mischievous way of mutating over time, a true shrine to the genre of build-it-yourself. Depending on Gary’s mood, the planetarium may have undergone a design transformation, or play host to an extravagant temporary exhibit from the Sumner Skies - Gallatin Planetarium.
---------------------------------
I can send copies to anyone interested !
book + shipping = 20$
---------------------------------
• editor : éditions P
• versions Fr et Engl
• 96 pages
• 46 color photographs
• format : 22 x 30,5 cm
• ISBN : 978-2-917768-74-7
www.remibragard.com
Posted by: mrgare5050 Mar 18 2021, 03:37 PM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ Mar 18 2021, 09:23 PM) *
Another new book.

Hi *!* Let me please introduce you the book
"PLANETARIA"
This book pays tribute to three individuals, Frank Kovac, Owen Phairis and Gary Likert with whom I met and share an obsession for these fascinating instruments from before the digital revolution.
With texts (in english and french) from Céline Flécheux, Vincent Lloyd & Richard H. Emmons.
Frank Kovac spent ten years building a planetarium in his back yard in the North Woods of Wisconsin. His one-of-a-kind creation is a mechanical wooden sphere measuring 23 feet in diameter and inspired by such proto planetariums as the Globe of Gottorf and the Atwood Sphere. Inside, he has reproduced in glow-in-the-dark paint all the stars visible to the naked eye in the northern hemisphere, numbering just over two thousand. An unforgettable experience awaits the viewer who makes the long trip out to this planetarium in the woods. The way in which Frank depicts the heavens using limited technology is paradoxical and spectacular, a breathtaking creation: the Kovac Planetarium.
Owen Phairis holds the Solar System’s largest collection of planetarium projectors at Big Bear Lake in California. In the shed where he stores his machines, there is a 136 lb. meteorite, a historical overview of the evolution of planetariums, and potentially hundreds of thousands of stars. Above the floor to ceiling display of astronomy- related objects, simultaneous projections make for an unusual stargazing experience at the Planetarium Projector and Science Museum.
I must also add that not far from his museum is a second shed housing some thirty replicas of Nikola Tesla inventions. Here Owen has created a show in honor of the genius inventor, in which he himself portrays Tesla amid arcs of electricity.
Gary Likert, founder of The Home Planetarium Association, collects and archives artisanal projectors. His collection and planetarium are housed in a century-old barn in Gallatin, Tennessee. Surrounded by odd do-it-yourself projects, sculptures, and other automated curiosities, he discusses the pioneers in the field, such as Richard Emmons and Steven Smith, whose prototypes he preserves. A word of caution to visitors, however: the space has a mischievous way of mutating over time, a true shrine to the genre of build-it-yourself. Depending on Gary’s mood, the planetarium may have undergone a design transformation, or play host to an extravagant temporary exhibit from the Sumner Skies - Gallatin Planetarium.
---------------------------------
I can send copies to anyone interested !
book + shipping = 20$
---------------------------------
• editor : éditions P
• versions Fr et Engl
• 96 pages
• 46 color photographs
• format : 22 x 30,5 cm
• ISBN : 978-2-917768-74-7
www.remibragard.com
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Mr Kovach seems to have alot of fans doesnt he.

Posted by: Scott T Mar 18 2021, 11:44 PM
Ordered my copy just now. smile.gif
Posted by: mrgare5050 Mar 19 2021, 01:10 AM
QUOTE(Scott T @ Mar 19 2021, 06:44 AM) *
Ordered my copy just now. smile.gif


Its good to know there's at least a few of them going out into the world! When Celine talks about 'melancholy' at the end, i think she was referring to half my pictures lol - some of them have a forlorn look about them. It as much about faded couches as it is gleaming brass I think.
Posted by: Ron Walker Mar 19 2021, 10:21 AM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Mar 18 2021, 03:37 PM) *
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Mr Kovach seems to have alot of fans doesnt he.

It appears that all three of you got equal billing. I do love the line, "A word of caution to visitors, however: the space has a mischievous way of mutating over time, a true shrine to the genre of build-it-yourself. Depending on Gary’s mood, the planetarium may have undergone a design transformation, or play host to an extravagant temporary exhibit from the Sumner Skies - Gallatin Planetarium".
Posted by: charles jones Mar 19 2021, 02:30 PM
QUOTE(Scott T @ Mar 18 2021, 11:44 PM) *
Ordered my copy just now. smile.gif

I went to his website, but couldn't find any link to order. How did you order it?

Posted by: mrgare5050 Mar 19 2021, 02:45 PM
QUOTE(charles jones @ Mar 19 2021, 09:30 PM) *
I went to his website, but couldn't find any link to order. How did you order it?


you have to email hilm Charles

I can send copies to anyone interested !
book + shipping = 20$
---------------------------------
• editor : éditions P
• versions Fr et Engl
• 96 pages
• 46 color photographs
• format : 22 x 30,5 cm
• ISBN : 978-2-917768-74-7
www.remibragard.com
Posted by: Ron Walker Mar 19 2021, 03:00 PM
QUOTE(charles jones @ Mar 19 2021, 02:30 PM) *
I went to his website, but couldn't find any link to order. How did you order it?

With Paypal it works well, if you're in the US, book + shipping is 20$, my email is bragard.remi@gmail.com, please take the option "send money to a friend", there is less taxes that way ! Thanks
Posted by: mrgare5050 Mar 19 2021, 04:44 PM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ Mar 19 2021, 10:00 PM) *
With Paypal it works well, if you're in the US, book + shipping is 20$, my email is bragard.remi@gmail.com, please take the option "send money to a friend", there is less taxes that way ! Thanks


didnt you see that i just told him that!!

I can send copies to anyone interested !
book + shipping = 20$
---------------------------------
• editor : éditions P
• versions Fr et Engl
• 96 pages
• 46 color photographs
• format : 22 x 30,5 cm
• ISBN : 978-2-917768-74-7
www.remibragard.com
Posted by: Ron Walker Mar 19 2021, 05:23 PM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Mar 19 2021, 04:44 PM) *
didnt you see that i just told him that!!

I can send copies to anyone interested !
book + shipping = 20$
---------------------------------
• editor : éditions P
• versions Fr et Engl
• 96 pages
• 46 color photographs
• format : 22 x 30,5 cm
• ISBN : 978-2-917768-74-7
www.remibragard.com

Yes you did but you gave him his web address and not his email address and his web address doesn't work. That is why I posted his email address as requested by Remi.
Posted by: mrgare5050 Mar 20 2021, 01:28 AM
oh good point, i hope he buys one! ive hesitated to spread Remi's email address around without his permission, so i dont feel comfortable advertising it myself.
Posted by: Ron Walker Mar 20 2021, 11:05 AM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Mar 20 2021, 01:28 AM) *
oh good point, i hope he buys one! ive hesitated to spread Remi's email address around without his permission, so i dont feel comfortable advertising it myself.

He listed it so I assumed it was OK.
Posted by: moonmagic Mar 20 2021, 11:36 AM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ Mar 19 2021, 11:21 AM) *
It appears that all three of you got equal billing. I do love the line, "A word of caution to visitors, however: the space has a mischievous way of mutating over time, a true shrine to the genre of build-it-yourself. Depending on Gary’s mood, the planetarium may have undergone a design transformation, or play host to an extravagant temporary exhibit from the Sumner Skies - Gallatin Planetarium".

YEP! That's OUR Gare. Space MUTATING over time; Design transformation; Host to extravagant temporary exhibit. Excellent descriptions, all. (He is really the Museum Curator) mm
Posted by: Ron Walker Mar 23 2021, 09:51 PM
QUOTE(moonmagic @ Mar 20 2021, 11:36 AM) *
YEP! That's OUR Gare. Space MUTATING over time; Design transformation; Host to extravagant temporary exhibit. Excellent descriptions, all. (He is really the Museum Curator) mm

It is a perfect description.
Posted by: mrgare5050 Mar 24 2021, 01:42 AM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ Mar 24 2021, 04:51 AM) *
It is a perfect description.


its certainly a fancy way of saying 'constantly rearranges his crap'

dump truck loads return next month. alot more of it is getting rearranged to the dump
Posted by: Ron Walker Mar 24 2021, 09:49 AM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Mar 24 2021, 01:42 AM) *
its certainly a fancy way of saying 'constantly rearranges his crap'

dump truck loads return next month. alot more of it is getting rearranged to the dump

But tastefully so.
Posted by: mrgare5050 Mar 24 2021, 10:33 AM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ Mar 24 2021, 04:49 PM) *
But tastefully so.


local management (my wife) just discovered a bunch of crap i had behind the tin can. she's beginning to rove outside. not good
Posted by: Ron Walker Mar 24 2021, 01:04 PM
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Mar 24 2021, 10:33 AM) *
local management (my wife) just discovered a bunch of crap i had behind the tin can. she's beginning to rove outside. not good

You might need to move your good junk stash.
Posted by: moonmagic Mar 24 2021, 03:39 PM
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ Mar 24 2021, 02:04 PM) *
You might need to move your good junk stash.

You guys know that having a good wife is a blessing. I no longer am "blessed." Therefore, I still have LOTS of good junk stashed EVERYWHERE! mm
Posted by: Ron Walker Mar 24 2021, 08:04 PM
QUOTE(moonmagic @ Mar 24 2021, 03:39 PM) *
You guys know that having a good wife is a blessing. I no longer am "blessed." Therefore, I still have LOTS of good junk stashed EVERYWHERE! mm

I just love GOOD JUNK!!!!! And I have a great wife that puts up with me.